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NTSB looking at 300 Electronic Shifters

7K views 41 replies 21 participants last post by  Red Ryder 
#1 ·
Fiat Chrysler gear shifters cause confusion, crashes
Posted: Feb 08, 2016 10:55 AM EST
Updated: Feb 08, 2016 11:12 AM EST


U.S. auto safety investigators have determined that electronic gear shifters in some newer Fiat Chrysler SUVs and cars are so confusing that drivers have exited the vehicles while they are in gear, causing 121 crashes and 30 injuries.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has doubled the number of vehicles in the investigation to more than 856,000. But it stopped short of calling for a recall.

The probe now covers 2014 and 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokees and 2012 through 2014 Dodge Charger and Chrysler 300 sedans with 3.6-liter V6 engines. The safety agency says in documents posted Monday that it's upgrading the investigation to an engineering analysis, which is a step closer to a recall.
 
#2 ·
It's hard to believe they are confusing per se, at least inasmuch as they possess all of the standard functions of any automatic transmission (i.e., park, drive, reverse, etc.) -- and if one is confused by those concepts, perhaps driving is not for them (or please warn me before you get on the road). I can however understand that their operation and physical attributes are certainly different than what most Americans are accustomed to. Regrettably though, some folks are simply impatient to spend a modicum of time with them -- a day or two -- before they start whining. Sometimes you have to make some effort to learn new things. If they did, they'd find like almost anything else, repetition breeds familiarization and they can easily acclimiate to the shifter.

Otherwise, I have a '13 S model and absolutely love my efficient and sharp-looking ZF transmission shifter. I say much ado about nothing.
 
#4 ·
It's got to be idiot proof!
 
#6 ·
When I first test drove the 2012 with E-Shift. I thought it was counter intuitive, and lacked "feel"
I much prefer the gated shifter in the 1st Gen.

I can totally see how this would cause accidents.
Doesnt matter if Chrysler Audi Jaguar or whoever uses these shifters. If they stuffed up, they stuffed up.
 
#8 ·
BigIronRam,

It may very well be, but its likely because the kind of people who could afford an A8L are also probably more likely to not be Darwin Award material. Certainly not impossible (money doesn't equal smarts) but less likely. Also, not the fine people of this board of which I am a member, but one can pick up a 2011-2014 300 with some miles for not a whole hell of a lot of money and it does still have that gangsta rollin' on 22"s stigma. Just sayin...

Beyond that, it's not Chrysler or ZFs fault if people are that stupid that they can't figure out how to use this thing and don't bother to look to see that its in park. It not "confusion", it's that they are effing morons. No matter what you are going to be driving, it is imperative that you familiarize yourself with its operation. If you can't or won't do that, you have absolutely no business being on the road. Plus, I can't believe someone would try to "report" this, I'd be so embarassed by being such a dipsh!t that I'd rather eat the cost. Do people have no shame?

Rant off.
 
#10 ·
Just a reminder that "U.S. auto safety investigators have determined that electronic gear shifters in some newer Fiat Chrysler SUVs and cars are so confusing that drivers have exited the vehicles while they are in gear, causing 121 crashes and 30 injuries."

I don't know why you are as you put it "ranting".
Experts found that it is confusing and causing accidents.
Why do you feel the need to insult those people who have suffered loss and injury due poor design?
 
#15 ·
More Than 100 Crashes Caused By Confusing Jeep, Chrysler, Dodge Gear Shifters ? Consumerist

This article is much clearer. If one reads the quoted complaints, it looks like some people actually put it in "park" but it wasn't really in park and other such problems. If that is true, that doesn't sound like a confusion issue, but an actual defect. If it says park but isn't really in park, that's a problem. If its just because people don't actually make sure its in park then that's user error.
 
#16 ·
No more confusing than any other of the other E type gear shifts in other manufacturers as well. I was a bit confused with the new BMW gear shifts and their lack of 'P', but with anything you get used to it. We all know that at times the joy-stick will move, but not actually changes gears if the button on the gear shift is not fully engaged. I have experienced this in other non-Mopar vehicles as well. Don't people use their parking brakes anymore? Quoting something from that article;

“My wife parked the car and had exited the vehicle, when after about 30 seconds it rolled forward and struck headstones in a cemetery. The car still indicated it was in ‘park’ when my son reentered the vehicle.”

In today's society, you think someone would willingly admit to a mistake which caused damaged to something as sacred as a cemetery when it would be easier to blame the manufacturer? Maybe, maybe not. There is just some people that cant understand new things, or things that are different from the norm from which they were previously accustomed to. That just does not apply to cars either. I doubt anything will come of this, and i certainly hope that if something does, it wont be to replace the E-shifts with rotary shifts. They just feel cheap. Certainly not as solid as the current E-shift.
 
#18 ·
There seem to be 2 things at play:

1) There could be a glitch where the car is actually being put into park by the person, and the car comes out of park. How it rolls forward is a mystery to me, given in any auto trans I've seen in the last 40 years, the first gear to be reached is "reverse". But if there is a glitch, this is quite serious.

2) Does anyone use the parking brake these days? And if not, why? Seems that would solve the mystery. Otherwise, what is the parking brake for?

Bottom line: I think society is far too distracted these days, so perhaps a chime or other (it wasn't clear that it was there) should play when the driver's door is opened and the car isn't in Park. I don't know if there is anything that chimes in the car when it is idling in park and the driver's door is opened, but there should be, or maybe we need voice warnings, such as "Engine is running" or "Gears are engaged".

But I'd really like to know if there is a problem that causes the car to revert to the previous gear selection before making a true judgement.
 
#19 ·
One other thought. Maybe somehow there is a defect in the towing override in the center console and it somehow gets engaged, so the car is in Park, but perhaps the car slips into Neutral? That would indeed be a major problem.

Again, I say use the parking brake.
 
#21 ·
On a few occasions I have run into an issue where I have selected park, but the car did not actually go into park. In other words. I pushed the lever all the way up to the park position and it did not go into park. I have also run into issues where going from reverse to Park or reverse to drive doesn't actually go into the gear I want. It is not perfect. Replacing with the dial from a 2015+ would be an easy fix as the consoles are identical.
 
#22 ·
Anyone ever try a 3-point u turn real quick with traffic bearing down on you? Good luck with this shitty shifter! I am pretty adept with electronics and cars and shifting, yet still have issues with this thing. Thought I would get used to it. Not. Hate it. Get rid of it. Failure. Shoot the engineers that think that just because it is "electronic" that somehow makes it better. Stick with tried-and-true!!!


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#24 ·
No complaints with the old shifter. Hundreds of complaints with new shifter. It's the shifter! The "morons" are not the drivers, but the engineers.

Do I ever look "look down" to see if the car's in Park in my "07? No, I just shove it forward to the final stop. I know it's in park there. All I've read about the electronic shifter is that it's sloppy, non-intuitive, and unsafe. Fix the damn thing.
 
#25 ·
A couple points after my comment. I love the retro style of the e-shifter but not a fan of the operation.

In the first frame of the video you can see the rear of the car, the backup lights are on, so it was left in reverse, not park. The driver also left the car running, had he not the car would have put itself in park. That's two driver errors in one incident, three if you add failing to set the parking brake while leaving a running car. Confusion, maybe, carelessness, certainly.
 
#26 ·
That's the whole point of these concerns. You can't with this shifter easily discern whether the car's in Park or in a gear. It has been intuitive for decades. With this shifter it seems it's not.
As far as it being "driver error" to leave the car running while you drop off passengers. Seriously?
 
#27 ·
That video is pure driver error. As BigIronRam has pointed out, the backup lights were on and so the car was in Reverse.
Looks to me he was in such a rush to get out, he left it in Reverse.

Now, if the shifter and the indicator in the dash showed the car to be in Park, when it was actually in Reverse, THEN we have an engineering problem worthy of a recall.
 
#29 ·
How can a handbrake fail if there isn't a handbrake in the car? I use my left foot to set the brake in my 300. Did they change this option and I wasn't aware? Looks like total driver error to me.
 
#33 ·
But they are still not addressing the fundamental piece of crap logic shifter. You should be able to directly select reverse from drive for example via detent location instead of having a logic shifter try and find the gear you want on a time basis which the way it is now, and when you are trying to parallel park on a busy street you usually get park instead of reverse,this is exceedingly dangerous.
 
#37 ·
Anton Yelchin (Star Trek's Chekov) rest in peace. Victim of his own Jeep Grand Cherokee and the gear selector not in park properly.


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