500 miles on my SRT8, I need new brakes ?

[Miami SRT8]

WoW, I just reached 500 miles and my rotors look like speed bumps....I thought they had fixed this brake issue...Can someone give me info on how to get TSB info. I called my dealer with the problem and he said it was normal. How could this be..

[srtdan]

i need the same info,i thought you just go in and tell them and bam,they install a lil less agressive pads n resurface the rotors n let u go on your merry way.....too easy?i hope it is.

[DanRealtor]

The TSB is 05-005-05. It calls for installing the replacement pads ONLY. With NO Rotor turning or replacement! On the dealers computer it states that DCX reserves the right to "Backcharge" any dealer that replaces the rotors!

Out of the goodness of their hearts my dealer "Machined" my front rotors free of charge. Oh BTW, after turning the rotors once they are close enough to minimum thickness that they will likely need to be replaced next time.

The rear pads are on national backorder. Estimated availability of 2/20/06.

I suggest you drive your car until you NEED brake pads, then do the TSB. The new pads are like $300-$400 a set! The rotors are about $112 each.


Dan

[dodgeboy16]

Originally Posted by DanRealtor

The TSB is 05-005-05. It calls for installing the replacement pads ONLY. With NO Rotor turning or replacement! On the dealers computer it states that DCX reserves the right to "Backcharge" any dealer that replaces the rotors!

Out of the goodness of their hearts my dealer "Machined" my front rotors free of charge. Oh BTW, after turning the rotors once they are close enough to minimum thickness that they will likely need to be replaced next time.

The rear pads are on national backorder. Estimated availability of 2/20/06.

I suggest you drive your car until you NEED brake pads, then do the TSB. The new pads are like $300-$400 a set! The rotors are about $112 each.


Dan

Dan,

Thats not the way to handle this problem. Chrysler is who put the pads ( to hard ? ) or rotors ( to soft? ) or both on the SRT-8s. My Rotors were so worn at 1500 MILES I couldn't beleive what I was seeing. Long story short was this. I told the dealer if the rotors wore that much in 1500 miles then what are they going to be like at 15,000. It was Chrysler who F_ _ _ ed up not me, and if they weren't going to fix the problem then there are other ways to handle the problem. My Brakes were replaced last week, 4 rotors and 4 sets of pads.


Jack

[DZeckhausen]

Originally Posted by dodgeboy16

Thats not the way to handle this problem. Chrysler is who put the pads ( to hard ? ) or rotors ( to soft? ) or both on the SRT-8s. My Rotors were so worn at 1500 MILES I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Long story short was this. I told the dealer if the rotors wore that much in 1500 miles then what are they going to be like at 15,000. It was Chrysler who F_ _ _ ed up not me, and if they weren't going to fix the problem then there are other ways to handle the problem. My Brakes were replaced last week, 4 rotors and 4 sets of pads.

Just so you have an easier time articulating the problem to the dealer - there is no such thing as "soft" rotors. If you say this to him (assuming he has any knowledge of brakes), you will lose some credibility. Rotors that wear out quickly do this for a few possible reasons:

• The friction plates are thin. BMW is a good example of this. Many people claim BMW rotors are "soft" because Mercedes rotors last 50% longer. In fact, BMW rotors are lighter because they have a bigger air gap and thinner friction plates, allowing the car to handle better and improve convective cooling (vs Mercedes). BMW allows only 1.6mm of rotor wear, while Mercedes (with thicker friction plates) allows 2.4mm of rotor wear. There's your 50% difference! No difference in rotor hardness. It's the difference in new rotor thickness vs minimum allowable thickness.
  
  
• The pads are too aggressive. I believe this to be the case with the SRT8. The rotors are merely innocent victims. Many race pads, when run in their operating temperature range of 400 degrees (F) or more, are very rotor friendly. Those same race pads, when operated on the street at lower temperatures can be incredibly abrasive. Hawk Blue is the ultimate example of this. In my opinion, the SRT8 pads are behaving as if they are race pads being used on the street.
  
  
• Finally, excessive rotor wear can be caused by mechanical problems ranging from sticking calipers (not applicable to the fixed mount, 4-piston Brembos), to residual line pressure. Again, I do not believe that to be the case here at all.

Also, the pads are not "hard" or "soft". The abrasiveness of the pads depends on many factors, including size disparity between the particles used in the raw materials for the friction compound. I doubt this is the case, since DCX presumably went with a pad supplier who has sophisticated quality tools to ensure particle uniformity. So it probably has more to do with the design of the compound and the finished product's mix of abrasive vs adherent friction.

If this sounds like Greek, here's an excellent white paper that will give you some background to understand all this: http://stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml. Skip down to the section titled "The Nature of Braking Friction."

[SRT8DRVR]

Speaking of Stop-Tech, I followed their method to a "T" for "bedding-in" my brakes this past Friday at 4AM (no cars, no cops on local highway).

No appreciable change in brake performance but now I have groovy rotors.

Wat's up with this? Did I just accerate the inevitable?

[DZeckhausen]

Originally Posted by SRT8DRVR

Speaking of Stop-Tech, I followed their method to a "T" for "bedding-in" my brakes this past Friday at 4AM (no cars, no cops on local highway).

No appreciable change in brake performance but now I have groovy rotors.

Wat's up with this? Did I just accerate the inevitable?

Are you saying that in just 8 stops from 60mph you created grooves in your rotors? The only way that would happen is if something was trapped between the pads and the rotors. Did you inspect the rotors before and after the bedding session and really see grooves that weren't there a few minutes earlier?

By no "appreciable change in brake performance" do you mean no detectible change at all? Or just a change that you don't consider significant? Bedding doesn't create a dramatic, night and day difference in brake feel as if you just installed big brakes. But it does increase Cf between pads and rotors and a sensitive driver can tell the difference beween brakes that have never been bedded and those that have. There are other benefits to bedding that won't show up in a single stop, such as longer rotor life, less dust, and less brake noise.

In the case of the SRT8 with stock pads, the working theory is that these pads behave like race pads, meaning they rapidly unbed the rotors at lower temperatures, create lots of dust, and score the rotors in just a few thousand miles. While bedding did stop the brakes on my SRT8 from squeaking, it did not cure the other ills that come from inappropriate pads being used under non-racing conditions. I'm eagerly awaiting the availability of the Hawk HPS and Hawk Performance Ceramic pads for the SRT8 application. That should fix these problems. In the meantime, try to get your dealer to warranty replace the scored rotors just prior to the installation (when they become available this summer) of the Hawk pads so you are starting off with fresh, unscored rotors.

[SRT8DRVR]

Thanks for responding Dave.

I can see and feel grooves in both front rotors and drivers rear, but not passenger rear. Car had 600 miles on it when I bedded-in on Friday. Don't know if there were grooves before as I was not aware of the grooving issue and didn't think to look. Based on some others complaints, sounds like they could have been there though I have been very gentle on the car during breakin.

On the bed-in here is what I did:

First try on Tuesday I did 3 warm ups mild braking 60-40mph. Then got in 7 or 8 hard braking runs form 65 to 5 or 10 without lockup. After that, too much traffic to do another run so bagged it and went home.

Friday same routine ( earlier in AM) , and did a 10 stop run, drove 20 minutes to cool down (ambient temp was around 25 degrees F) then did another 10 stop run, drove 20 minutes and went home and back to sleep. This is straight out of Stop-Tech guidance.

As for performance, I wasn't all over the brakes before so for that reason and not being an expert, I can't really tell. But the brakes were mighty good to begin with and my real intent was to get more life and less dust as described by Stop-Tech and others in their tech guidance. ( They sure stopped fast, controlled and straight on the bed-in runs).

So I guess for now I have to go on faith I did the right thing for the brakes, live with the SRT8 pad issues and as you suggest wait out the Hawks and try for a warranty rotor replacement. Or their may be some nice matched cross-drilled avialable by then?

Keith

[f4aar]

Originally Posted by SRT8DRVR

Thanks for responding Dave.

I can see and feel grooves in both front rotors and drivers rear, but not passenger rear. Car had 600 miles on it when I bedded-in on Friday. Don't know if there were grooves before as I was not aware of the grooving issue and didn't think to look. Based on some others complaints, sounds like they could have been there though I have been very gentle on the car during breakin.

On the bed-in here is what I did:

First try on Tuesday I did 3 warm ups mild braking 60-40mph. Then got in 7 or 8 hard braking runs form 65 to 5 or 10 without lockup. After that, too much traffic to do another run so bagged it and went home.

Friday same routine ( earlier in AM) , and did a 10 stop run, drove 20 minutes to cool down (ambient temp was around 25 degrees F) then did another 10 stop run, drove 20 minutes and went home and back to sleep. This is straight out of Stop-Tech guidance.

As for performance, I wasn't all over the brakes before so for that reason and not being an expert, I can't really tell. But the brakes were mighty good to begin with and my real intent was to get more life and less dust as described by Stop-Tech and others in their tech guidance. ( They sure stopped fast, controlled and straight on the bed-in runs).

So I guess for now I have to go on faith I did the right thing for the brakes, live with the SRT8 pad issues and as you suggest wait out the Hawks and try for a warranty rotor replacement. Or their may be some nice matched cross-drilled avialable by then?

Keith

Guys the SRT-10 trucks have first class brakes and none of the brake dust or rotor issues that the SRT-8 cars have what gives?

[Dan SS2471]

Originally Posted by f4aar

Guys the SRT-10 trucks have first class brakes and none of the brake dust or rotor issues that the SRT-8 cars have what gives?

I was looking at a couple QC SRT-10s while at the dealer picking my car up but didn't look at the brakes. Do they have Brembos?