Brakes????

[II kings 9:20]

well Js440 all good points esp the drilled rotor issue though I have never heard of ss flex lines blowing out but I guess anything's possible. One of the most cost effective and safe measures to improve braking distance (not pedal feel) is to get better tires. You can knock off 15-20ft from 60mph which is the length of a 300C.

[CottyGee]

What's the issue with drilled rotors??

I've got 'em on my 66 Chevy pickup, and they've been terrific! Anything to dissipate heat, you know?? Only issue I've EVER had was when the morons at this one shop I went to tried to tell me they couldn't turn the rotors because of the champhered cross-drill holes - which turned out to be a crock.

[james jefferson]

back in my younger carefree days we used to drill 2 or 3 holes in brake pads and put pencil lead in the holes to stop the squeeling.

[Js440]

The issue with simply putting on drilled rotors is less surface area for the pad to make contact with. So yes, there's less heat buildup, but because there is less surface friction, you don't always stop as well.

It was my understanding that if you do alot of hard braking, like in an auto-x then drilled rotors can help reduce fade, but will not shorten stopping distance.

To really improved braking, you'd need as mentioned, tires, larger rotors, improved pads, and stronger lines, like SS.

What i mentioned about SS lines blowing out was that you want to upgrade the whole system. Simply adding SS lines reduces flex on the lines, so the pressure has to go somewhere. If the rest of the system is weak, then it has the potential to blow. Not from experience, just what i heard.

I really hope they get some larger brake kits for the newer 300. There really any for the M series but a few shops that offered custom work for extreme amounts of money.

[todd tce]

FYI, SS hoses do nothing to change pressure. Not increase it nor reduce it.
SS hoses are simply more compliant to the pressure they endure. Meaning less swelling. This transfers back to a tad bit more 'firm feel' pedal. There is absolutely no reason why you NEED to replace all four hoses on a car vs. fronts only. Or even one for that matter.

Improved braking is a subjective term. More torque, firmer pedal, shorter distance, more thermal capacity? All valuable traits. However....the most common real world need is simply more thermal capacity. Meaning the brakes work as well and feel the same on the last stop as the first.

Drilled rotors are today simply a cosmetic add on. Thier minor improvements in pad wiping is more than given back by way of loss of life span. Only those cars seeing street use should consider drilled rotors. Track use cars will do well to keep them solid or gas slot them only. While drilling will reduce weight it will also shorten the life span of the rotor and should be considered expendable items. Perhaps on a weekend basis.

[van300]

brembo does make a kit for the 300 i have already puchased one.

[Js440]

hehe, i never implied that SS lines increased or changed pressure. I simply said they don't flex. So the pressure that is there needs to go somewhere... yes they do improve pedal feel, but if lines are added and other components are not upgraded, those other components may receive more pressure, because what's there has to go somewhere.

My point was simply that if a brake upgrade is going to be done, the whole package should be put on. As Todd said, drilled rotors for the average person just look really cool. Don't expect better stopping times or improved performance on a street car just because you have drilled rotors.

[DZeckhausen]

Originally Posted by Js440

hehe, i never implied that SS lines increased or changed pressure. I simply said they don't flex. So the pressure that is there needs to go somewhere... yes they do improve pedal feel, but if lines are added and other components are not upgraded, those other components may receive more pressure, because what's there has to go somewhere.

This is a common misconception. The introduction of Teflon lines with stainless steel braid does not cause pressure to "go somewhere" else. The pressure in the system is constant. It is not the same thing as adding stiffer swaybars to a car, which then causes more stress to be applied to other suspension components.

Reducing compliance in the brake lines translates to reduced pedal travel (on the order of magnitude of 3/16") and more linear response to driver inputs. That's the only change. No additional stress is applied to any other components. With a given pedal input by the driver, the pressure in the system will be a specific value, say 600 psi. By changing the lines, you merely reduce the pedal travel and the "mush" the driver feels during the process of applying that specific pedal input. The 600 psi doesn't become 650 psi in the calipers or the ABS module because the new lines are less compliant. The pressure is constant throughout the system.

As long as you pick a quality aftermarket line that is properly designed for your car, properly installed, and the system properly bled, there is no downside.

[DZeckhausen]

Originally Posted by van300

brembo does make a kit for the 300 i have already puchased one.

Do you know if your Brembo kit fits underneath the stock 300C and/or the stock Dodge Magnum RT 18" wheels? I had an engineering diagram from Brembo which I translated into a wheel fitment template. It showed the kit did not fit. But I'm not 100% confident in the accuracy of my template. And the fact that the StopTech kit fits the stock wheels makes me think there's a chance the Brembo will too.

Both kits use 355mm x 32mm front rotors and nearly identical size front calipers. The Brembo rear kit is smaller with 345mm x 28mm rotors and the mini-Jag calipers, while the StopTech uses the same 355mm x 32mm rotors in back and calipers which are the same outside dimensions as their front kit. If StopTech could make their bigger rear kit fit, I'm surprised Brembo couldn't make their smaller rear kit fit. That's why I would like to know first-hand, rather than by relying on a homemade template.

Thanks!

[Js440]

I see what your saying DZ. I'm no expert, yet was going on information i'd recieve from other people who do have alot of experience. I have a 300m, and was considering SS lines a little while back. This friend of mine who does alot of track work discouraged SS lines without upgrading to a higher end caliper. He also discouraged drilled/slotted rotors unless i was tracking the car as well.

Basically, he said if you're gonna do it, do it right. Rotors, calipers, SS lines, everything. And make sure you get what you're going to use, otherwise it's wasted money. And after all i'm just trying to offer some insight for people considering such a large purchase for their car