Opinions on my dilemma?

[NY2PA]

Hi All,

I picked up a 300C SRT8 on Friday night from a Chevy dealer that was traded in for a ZO6. I bought it at a Chevy dealer b/c there were not many pre-owned SRT-8's in my area that were fully loaded + rear DVD for the 2 kids at such a competitive price point. I traded a 2005 5.7L 300C AWD equipped with everything but SIRIUS & U-Connect with over 36K miles that just came back from over 6 weeks in the repair shop and over $23K in damage (rear-ended by 2 SUV's while stopped in traffic). Nothing on the CARFAX yet, so I wanted to unload it quickly. The trade only cost me $10K, and based on what I was getting quoted by the local Chrysler dealers in a 250 mile radius, I thought that it was a very reasonable trade. The SRT8 has less than 12K miles on it and I did not expect the brakes to be an issue b/c, like a schmuck, I never read this thread. You see, I never had an issue with the brakes on my 300C AWD after aggressively driving it for over 2 years, so I did not think there were any issues with the SRT8 since the brakes were heavier.

Here is my dilemma..
Do I have a leg to stand on here to go back to this dealer and asking for some consideration that he sold me a car with the pads down to the warning tab after 60 miles of driving?

-or-

Does anyone have advice on how to approach this guy and get at least replacement pads & labor from him?

How much should brakes run me on this car anyway? I've been searching around, but have not found any pricing on OEM replacement costs. I'm concerned about the upgraded pads if they will affect any existing warranties. Then again, if the warranty is only 12K on the rotors, then maybe I should not give a s***.

Let me know if anyone has any ideas for me.

Thanks

[Rambit]

Originally Posted by NY2PA

Hi All,

I picked up a 300C SRT8 on Friday night from a Chevy dealer that was traded in for a ZO6. I bought it at a Chevy dealer b/c there were not many pre-owned SRT-8's in my area that were fully loaded + rear DVD for the 2 kids at such a competitive price point. I traded a 2005 5.7L 300C AWD equipped with everything but SIRIUS & U-Connect with over 36K miles that just came back from over 6 weeks in the repair shop and over $23K in damage (rear-ended by 2 SUV's while stopped in traffic). Nothing on the CARFAX yet, so I wanted to unload it quickly. The trade only cost me $10K, and based on what I was getting quoted by the local Chrysler dealers in a 250 mile radius, I thought that it was a very reasonable trade. The SRT8 has less than 12K miles on it and I did not expect the brakes to be an issue b/c, like a schmuck, I never read this thread. You see, I never had an issue with the brakes on my 300C AWD after aggressively driving it for over 2 years, so I did not think there were any issues with the SRT8 since the brakes were heavier.

Here is my dilemma..
Do I have a leg to stand on here to go back to this dealer and asking for some consideration that he sold me a car with the pads down to the warning tab after 60 miles of driving?

-or-

Does anyone have advice on how to approach this guy and get at least replacement pads & labor from him?

How much should brakes run me on this car anyway? I've been searching around, but have not found any pricing on OEM replacement costs. I'm concerned about the upgraded pads if they will affect any existing warranties. Then again, if the warranty is only 12K on the rotors, then maybe I should not give a s***.

Let me know if anyone has any ideas for me.

Thanks

Congrats on entering the Dark Side NY2PA! First off, the warranty for the pads/rotors is only 12,000 miles or 1 year. You're under the mileage, but probably over the time limit.

I say cut your losses and now's a good time to swap your pads for the Posi Quiet pads from DaveZ. You can order them here - Chrysler 300C SRT8 Products: StopTech big brake kits, stainless steel braided brake lines, tires. Personally I don't see it worth the hassle of trying to get new OEM pads and you'll probably be much happier not dealing with the brake dust anyway.

Bernie

[bac n black]

Well if the brakes were that far worn, then you have to ? to what extent did they do a safety check. I believe that they are responsible to ensure that the car is safe to drive. I would just approach it by telling them you are concerned as to whether or not the car was given the once over and you don't understand how in 60 miles you need new pads. Most reputable dealers have a sheet they use to take in a car and what service was done on it. You could ask them to see this sheet. Obviously, they did not check the pads, a car this new and with the low miles often they will not look at it as hard, wash it and put it on the lot. But you should probably also know that there are TSB's on the SRT8 Brakes, I think rotors and pads, I am a 300C guy so I am not positive.

[NY2PA]

Originally Posted by Rambit

Congrats on entering the Dark Side NY2PA! First off, the warranty for the pads/rotors is only 12,000 miles or 1 year. You're under the mileage, but probably over the time limit.


Bernie

Hey Bernie, glad to have cause to speak with you directly after all this time. I have enjoyed many of your postings over the years and your car is awesome. As it turns out, the in-service date was 8/14/06 and I have 11,222 miles on it. I may have to act fast, but what can I get Chrysler to do for me on this? What are the TSB's? I agree that the other pads may be more of a pleasure, but if I can get something for free right now, I am paying for a clear bra & tinting tomorrow and want to get in on the Tommy Z group buy, so I will take anything I can for free. How much would rear replacements run anyway?

[NY2PA]

Originally Posted by bac n black

Well if the brakes were that far worn, then you have to ? to what extent did they do a safety check. I believe that they are responsible to ensure that the car is safe to drive. I would just approach it by telling them you are concerned as to whether or not the car was given the once over and you don't understand how in 60 miles you need new pads. Most reputable dealers have a sheet they use to take in a car and what service was done on it. You could ask them to see this sheet. Obviously, they did not check the pads, a car this new and with the low miles often they will not look at it as hard, wash it and put it on the lot. But you should probably also know that there are TSB's on the SRT8 Brakes, I think rotors and pads, I am a 300C guy so I am not positive.

THAT is exactly what I thought! I was not sure if my reasoning made sense because it was reasonable I have never purchased a used car before and I'm not sure what to expect. I was a little concerned that it was not CERTIFIED, but did not think that it made a difference until now. I called the sales guy on his cell at 9:30PM tonight, so let's see if the rapport we developed over the past week leading up to the sale was all BS.

[Rambit]

Originally Posted by NY2PA

Hey Bernie, glad to have cause to speak with you directly after all this time. I have enjoyed many of your postings over the years and your car is awesome. As it turns out, the in-service date was 8/14/06 and I have 11,222 miles on it. I may have to act fast, but what can I get Chrysler to do for me on this? What are the TSB's? I agree that the other pads may be more of a pleasure, but if I can get something for free right now, I am paying for a clear bra & tinting tomorrow and want to get in on the Tommy Z group buy, so I will take anything I can for free. How much would rear replacements run anyway?

Hey thanks for the kind words PA! Well, seeing as you're that close, you better act fast, like TOMORROW...haha.

I don't know the condition of your rotors, but if they're scored and grooved you may be able to get the slotted rotors. Even if only one rotor is grooved they still have to replace all of them. The TSB also says to "Inspect the brake pads and replace the pads as necessary", so you may be able to get pads as well seeing as you say they're almost gone.

Here's the TSB for it - http://www.wkjeeps.com/misc/LX/TSB/TSB_0500606.pdf. Probably a good idea to print it out in case the dealer tries to pull a fast one on you. Good luck!!!

Bernie

[NY2PA]

Thanks for the link Bernie. My searching skills are a little rusty, but I found it and printed them off and then read your post. I'll be there tomorrow at 7AM with donuts, as per your advice on a previous thread.

[NY2PA]

Well, the 9:40AM update. I showed up at my Chrysler dealer bearing gifts, but there was"no room at the inn." The service manager told me that they were closing in 2 weeks and could not even tell me if they would get to the car before then.

Now for the good news thus far. He told me that the Dodge/Mitsubishi dealer 1 mile up the road is taking over the Chrysler & Jeep franchise and might be able to get me in. I took my donuts and went to start a new relationship off on the right foot down the street. The guy at the desk remembered me from the Chrysler dealer and he was always pretty cool. I attempt to tip him occasionally out of sight of the bosses and he would always respectfully refuse. I showed him the TSB's and he said that he would let me know if the rotors needed replacement, or just the pads. I did not push when I was in front of the rest of the guys, but just called him an urged to replace with the slotted rotors either way b/c I did not want to run into an issue when out of warranty. Just in case I do not luck out on the rotors, is there something that I should definitely say on record in case the problem occurs further down the road that would make chances for replacement a little better?

I'll keep you guys updated on my progress. Thanks again

[GoofyTimL]

Glad you're getting your brake situation sorted, but I have to ask something from the perspective I got with your first post.

You traded in a 300C AWD that, in your own words, "just came back from over 6 weeks in the repair shop and over $23K in damage (rear-ended by 2 SUV's while stopped in traffic). Nothing on the CARFAX yet, so I wanted to unload it quickly." In other words iit sounds like you didn't reveal to the receiving dealer that it had been nearly totalled. So it is left for them or the next owner to suddenly discover through CarFax - eventually, maybe - that it was a major accident car? And you're questioning that they didn't talk to you about the brakes?

Seems a bit strange to me.

Now reverse the situation... what if you were to find out that your "new to you" SRT8 had been in a similar situation... repaired from a nearly totalled condition? Don't think you'd be too happy.

I just hope you were more up front with your dealer and with any other dealing you have with people than your written statement would make it appear... at least to me.

[NY2PA]

Originally Posted by GoofyTimL

Glad you're getting your brake situation sorted, but I have to ask something from the perspective I got with your first post.

You traded in a 300C AWD that, in your own words, "just came back from over 6 weeks in the repair shop and over $23K in damage (rear-ended by 2 SUV's while stopped in traffic). Nothing on the CARFAX yet, so I wanted to unload it quickly." In other words iit sounds like you didn't reveal to the receiving dealer that it had been nearly totalled. So it is left for them or the next owner to suddenly discover through CarFax - eventually, maybe - that it was a major accident car? And you're questioning that they didn't talk to you about the brakes?

Seems a bit strange to me.

Now reverse the situation... what if you were to find out that your "new to you" SRT8 had been in a similar situation... repaired from a nearly totalled condition? Don't think you'd be too happy.

I just hope you were more up front with your dealer and with any other dealing you have with people than your written statement would make it appear... at least to me.

Hey Goofy,

You will find that I am pretty good, straight-forward guy when you get to know me a little better. In response to your comments about my unfortunate situation and how I handled it, I have the following.

You're right, I would not be happy if I found out at a later date that my "new to me" car was previously in an accident, but I still understood the risks when I decided to purchase a used vehicle instead of new. Even in the information age, they still call it "Buyer Beware" for a reason. Before CARFAX, only a trained eye and a paint depth gauge could be used by the buyer (dealer or consumer) evaluating a trade-in or private sale. I registered with CARFAX for any items they guarantee like SALVAGE, FLOOD/HAIL DAMAGE, or BUYBACK/LEMON which states that they will purchase the car back if they were wrong, but there is no protection from purchasing a prior accident vehicle.

My anger about the brakes is not financially motivated, but that the dealer misrepresented the mechanical condition of the car and gave me a false sense of security when making the purchase. He produced a multi-point checklist stating that everything was satisfactory. He mentioned that it received an early 12K service from the dealer and everything checked out, but he did not have the receipt. The condition of these brakes would not have passed by unnoticed by a Chrysler mechanic. I am an idiot for not checking the brakes myself, but it is the first time I bought a used car and did not know what to look for. He put my safety at risk by not disclosing the actual condition of a major component of the car. I neglected to mention that I bought the car from a dealer outside the Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep brand, so it was not a certified pre-owned that I would have got from Chrysler.

As far as my car goes, yes, it was in an accident, but was fixed by a high-end shop and brought back to as-new condition both structurally & cosmetically. I even through in $1500 of my own cash to repaint anything that had a chip on it. Anyone getting this car would not realize it was in an accident by driving it or looking at it. The dealer even commented that it was one of the cleanest cars he had taken on a trade. With regard to the cost of the damage, it sounds worse than it was. It was not a "major accident car" becuase of he final price. Most of the damage was cosmetic and there was very little frame correction needed. Costs went up b/c I demanded all new parts instead of the used parts quoted in the adjuster appraisal and where he suggeted that only a partial panel would be repainted, I insisted they paint the entire panel of a damaged area. This place is extremely expensive & quoted me over $4500 for the hood and front bumper if I wanted them done outside of the accident, but did it for $1500 since they maxed out the claim. The only mechanical system that needed replacement was the exhaust and there was no damage to the drivetrain. One of the airbags deployed, which is about $1800 alone.

Contrary to how the dealer treated me, I did not misrepresent anything about the car. The salesperson did in fact ask whether I repainted any parts of the car & I responded yes to his question. I asked if it was an issue and he told me not to bring it up to his boss b/c he needed the sale. The dealer is it's own worst enemy based on their sales commission structure and what the salespeople are willing to compromise for the sale. At no point was I asked if the car was in an accident, so I was not legally required to disclose anything about it since the car is sold "as is". IMO, being more "up front" in this case would only give the dealer more ammunition to beat me up with during the negotiation process. Even more importantly, I question whether the dealer would share the information with the new buyer that will possibly pay $26-$28K for the car.

With regard to the cost of the damage, it sounds worse than it was. Most of the damage was cosmetic and there was very little frame correction needed. Costs went up b/c I demanded all new parts instead of the used parts quoted in the adjuster appraisal and where he suggeted that only a partial panel would be repainted, I insisted they paint the entire panel of a damaged area. This place is extremely expensive & quoted me over $4500 for the hood and front bumper if I wanted them done outside of the accident, but did it for $1500 since they maxed out the claim. The only mechanical system that needed replacement was the exhaust and there was no damage to the drivetrain. One of the airbags deployed, which is about $1800 alone.

At the end of the day, they gave me $2K less than what KBB says I should have received for "GOOD" condition and that was around wholesale. He can sell it at auction and break even if there is a problem later. I've been in sales for 18 years now and both parties never walk away as winners. It's a zero sum game and one side always wins. Chrysler beat me for full price of $42K when I bought this car during high demand, it depreciated by 60% in 2.5 years based on my sellling price, and my insurance carrier screwed me out of getting at least third party replacement value b/c they made 3 inaccurate appraisals before the final tally and should have totaled the car from the start. I unloaded a car that was fun, but unlucky for me in many ways, and drove away in an SRT8. 3 losses, but 1 big win for me in the end as I see it!

If you or anyone else would have handled the situation differently, then you are better than me. I think both sides reached a compromise and had full understanding of the caveats.