Brake Dust - Revisited

[DZeckhausen]

Originally Posted by north49guy

Rambit, I sent you a PM.

I will see if they plan on making EBC greens for the 300 Brembos (or they may already). I use the greens on my Vipers and they work excellent.

How long and under what conditions have you been using the EBC Greenstuff on your Viper?

It has been my experience that EBC Greenstuff is the most notorious pad for causing uneven depostion on rotors, resulting in judder under braking. If you search on any of the BMW or Audi boards, you will find many posts from people who have "discovered" the low-dust EBC Greenstuff pads and raved about them. A month later, they post how their poor quality rotors have warped. It turns out, the rotors are merely innocent bystanders. The culprit is the EBC Greenstuff pads.

EBC has singlehandedly tarnished the reputation of low dust brake pads among many independent garages. I'm constantly hearing from customers how their mechanics warned them low dust brake pads would "warp" their rotors. Further investigation often reveals EBC Greenstuff pads formed the basis for their conclusion. In fact, there are several excellent low dust pads out there, including Axxis Deluxe Plus and Hawk Performance Ceramic. But it becomes a tougher sell after someone has been burned by a bad experience with a low dust pad.

If you feel the slightest hint of judder from the EBC pads under light braking, take a moment to follow these bedding instructions: http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm. That might buy you some more time. But if you overheat the EBC from agressive driving, you'll end up with massive pad deposits that even a good bedding session won't cure.

[north49guy]

Dave, I have never had any problems that you point out. However, I do not brake aggressively if that makes any difference.

[XCITsNU]

We put EBC and brand new rotors on our Navigator less than one year ago (June). Just replaced them both last week. The Rotors were BRAND new and had judder(is that a word?) after 3 months. Finally got sick of it and just replaced everything. I'll thought they were just bad rotors. Now I know never to buy EBC again. Thanks for the info.

[DZeckhausen]

Originally Posted by north49guy

Dave, I have never had any problems that you point out. However, I do not brake aggressively if that makes any difference.

It's when they get really hot that you run into the problem. Once overheated, they are particularly bad about leaving rotor deposits.

[north49guy]

Dave, is it just the greens or all EBC's. It still seems to me that most guys who race, use EBC's over anything else.

[DZeckhausen]

Originally Posted by north49guy

Dave, is it just the greens or all EBC's. It still seems to me that most guys who race, use EBC's over anything else.

The greens are the dreadful pads with all sorts of judder problems. I don't have any feedback on the rest of their product line.

What racing venue are you seeing lots of EBC pads? At the pro level, I'm seeing Hawk HT14, Performance Friction 01 & 03, Raybestos ST43, Pagid Black or Yellow, and Ferodo DS3000. I don't know of any race teams running EBC pads.

[415_300C]

Brembos are HORRIBLE for dust... on my STi before swapping out pads it was unbearable, almost every drive in the car resulted in black wheels...

[DZeckhausen]

Originally Posted by 415_300C

Brembos are HORRIBLE for dust... on my STi before swapping out pads it was unbearable, almost every drive in the car resulted in black wheels...

That had to do with the selection of friction that Subaru chose to put into the Brembo brakes on that model. Not all Brembo-equipped OEM applications are dusty.

If you think the STi was bad, you should see the factory pads that come with "ordinary" BMWs. Yikes!

[XCITsNU]

Well I can speak for the SRT-8 crowd and say that the Brembos on my SRT-8 are creating a lot of black dust. The rims are dirty after a day or two.

[DZeckhausen]

Originally Posted by XCITsNU

Well I can speak for the SRT-8 crowd and say that the Brembos on my SRT-8 are creating a lot of black dust. The rims are dirty after a day or two.

If someone wants to take the time to pull a front pad and a rear pad and make a tracing for me, complete with accurate measurments, I can try to figure out the FMSI number of the pads and cross reference to a few aftermarket alternatives. I wouldn't be surprised if the front pads are the same as used in the 2005 Volvo V70R. The backs are more of a mystery.

Thickness of the pads is an important measurement to take, since there are often a couple different thicknesses offered in the same pad shape. So you might get the shape right, but end up with a pad that won't fit because it's too thick.

I'm pretty sure we can find something with a little less dust that won't hurt the braking performance. And, if some of you want to make a few runs at the local road race circuit, you should consider swapping in some dedicated track pads, lest you overheat the street pads and ruin your rotors with excessive pad deposition. Once I know the FMSI number of these pads, I'll be able to list all the track pads that will fit.