Brake Pads

[DZeckhausen]

Originally Posted by sikrwhp

I read your opinion on another thread about "EBC" products. I have them on the wife's Rover (there are not a lot of ceramic/low dust choices). She does not drive it hard, but it is heavy; I have warned her about the rotor wear implications. What are some of the signs if it does start to develop problems? I plan on watching it very closely. We do tow a single pwc trailer occasionally.

Which Rover year and model is it? I might be able to suggest something better than the dreaded EBC Greenstuff.

If you notice a slight "grabbiness" to the brakes when braking gently, that will be your first hint. The brakes seem stronger, then weaker, then stronger but it's not quite bad enough that you feel any pulsation in the pedal. Eventually, the deposits build up enough that you start to feel a judder under braking at specific speeds. What's happening is the inputs at those speeds are a multiple (harmonic) of the fundamental frequency of your suspension and the effect gets amplified. Finally, you experience judder under braking at all speeds. The progression from stage 1 to stage 3 is gradual.

[sikrwhp]

Thanks for your input Dave. It's an '01 Land Rover Disco II.

[DZeckhausen]

Originally Posted by sikrwhp

Thanks for your input Dave. It's an '01 Land Rover Disco II.

Both of the low dust pads I carry for that application are better than the EBC Greenstuff. See: http://www.zeckhausen.com/Land_Rover...very_00-02.htm

However, the braking on that platform is so marginal, I would strongly suggest you pick the Axxis Ultimate pads instead. My next door neighbor has a 2001 Discovery and he let me drive it last summer. I was horrified by the braking. I ordered up a set of the Axxis Ultimate pads and did a careful bleed when I changed them. The combination of higher friction pads and the removal of the air from the lines totally transformed the braking on that truck. Perhaps you don't have as much air in the lines in your Discovery, but in my neighbor's case, the braking felt totally different. Granted, the Ultimate pads do dust more than Axxis Deluxe Plus or Hawk HPS. But the dust is still less than stock and the performance and pedal feel is much better.

[sikrwhp]

Dave, thanks for your expertise. Unfortunately for me, I recently changed the pads, just before I joined this site. At the first hint of trouble with the EBCs I will ditch them, and contact you for replacements. It pains me a little that I paid more for the EBCs than your price for the Ultimates; live and learn I guess. The brake performance has been an issue with this car since day one, and the dealer indicated that they do get a lot of "complaints" about the lack of pedal, but they were never able to improve the performance (they were bled once). Its been over a year, so I will bleed tham again and see if anything improves. Thanks again for your input; I am still looking forward to your news about availability for the SRT8 pads.

Thanks,

[DZeckhausen]

Originally Posted by sikrwhp

Dave, thanks for your expertise. Unfortunately for me, I recently changed the pads, just before I joined this site. At the first hint of trouble with the EBCs I will ditch them, and contact you for replacements.

Just keep in mind, your first hint of trouble will be judder and that means the problem is with your rotors. Replacing the pads won't fix it. The pads may be the root cause of the problem and the rotors merely innocent bystanders. But the rotors are where the uneven pad depsosits end up. That will need to be addressed before you install new pads.

It pains me a little that I paid more for the EBCs than your price for the Ultimates; live and learn I guess.

I do have very good pricing on Axxis pads, due to volume.

The brake performance has been an issue with this car since day one, and the dealer indicated that they do get a lot of "complaints" about the lack of pedal, but they were never able to improve the performance (they were bled once). Its been over a year, so I will bleed tham again and see if anything improves.

That's the understatement of the year. The brakes on the Discovery are frightening, if my neighbor's car was any indication. His dealership used a pressure bleeder to flush the fluid and it was NOT effective at ridding the calipers of all the air bubbles. I used a rubber mallet and tapped the calipers while bleeding. That technique yielded several large bubbles and really firmed things up. I wrote up my technique here: http://www.zeckhausen.com/bleeding_brakes.htm. You can skip over all the motherhood and apple pie stuff about why it's good to bleed brakes and jump down to the techniques.

Thanks again for your input; I am still looking forward to your news about availability for the SRT8 pads.

I just called Matt at StopTech and he told me they would have the SRT8 in their shop for measurement some time in the next few days.

[GEN XER]

Originally Posted by DZeckhausen

Check out: http://tinyurl.com/8ssma

I don't know how good they are, but it's one of the few choices out there for now.

How much does the local Chrysler dealer charge for factory replacement pads?

Visit napaonline.com and put the part number CMX7962 and CMX7963 in the part # search box for a complete MSDS breakdown of these pads.

[DZeckhausen]

Originally Posted by sikrwhp

I am still looking forward to your news about availability for the SRT8 pads.

Nothing out there yet for the front calipers. We do have some options for the rear calipers. I've got pad tracings from the SRT8 as well as the official FMSI numbers that describe them:

SRT8 Front Pad:





SRT8 Rear Pad:

The tab at the lower left of the front pad and lower right of the rear pad is a squeal shim that causes the brake to screech when the pads are nearly worn. The soft metal finger touches down on the rotor a couple of millimeters before the pads are fully worn.

If you don't mind being without the protection of a squeal shim, there is a substitute pad for the rear calipers that is an exact shape match. It's the D592 pad, used in some Lotus and Jaguar applications, as well as the Brembo GT3 calipers. This pad is made in two variants, a thick one (about 17mm) and a thin one (about 14.5mm). You need the thin one. This shape (and thickness) is available in low dust Hawk HPS, but not Hawk Performance Ceramic. The part number is HB194F.570.

There is nothing available for the front yet. It is a unique shape, unlike anything that has been sold before. There have been a number of false alarms recently, with some claiming the SRT8 pads are available at NAPA or from Hawk. Both have turned out to be false and in both cases the pads were for the "normal" 300C. The latest word from Hawk is that a Performance Ceramic version of these pads may become available in the summer.

Having the actual pad drawings on hand may help you avoid buying the wrong pads, just in case someone else claims to have them for the SRT8. You might want to print them out and set them aside.