This forum, Languages, Diesels and areas outside Europe

[mathijskok]

Yeah, I believe I managed to write the title that confuses most of all! But the idea behind this forum needs to be clarified a bit perhaps.

As far as the info I get is corrent 80% of 300's sold in Europe are diesels and as far as I am correct, you can not buy it in the US (please correct me). So European drivers and diesel drivers are roughly the same. I have NO idea how this is outside Europe, but we sure love to know. I also have no idea about version of the 300 in any area outside the US and Europe, but we love to know about that as well, when applicable we'll ask you to move forums.

Now, touchy topic, I have started many forums and I learned the hard way that getting Europeans to participate can be hard. For most English is at best a second language and the speaking language used on forums is a bit different from high school english. So there is a logical hesitance to participate. But it is not needed. I am the moderator, I adhere to all the rules that are used on other forums here and add one new. "It is NOT allowed to make jokes about language." Never. Not even with all the smilies and such. If you spend half an hour compising your few lines of the message and see some joker making fun of your efforts, you tell me and I'll tell him that his Dutch/German/Russian/French/Spanish/Portugese/etc is probably not as good as your English. Just don't post anything other then English here as that is the language of the hosts. It is after all a US car.

I know I make a lot of mistakes writing what I do and I don't care a lot. If you are afraid to write here because you fear your English is not good enough, understand that nobody will mind. As long as you are understood it's okay, when you are not understood we'll help, if your English is non existant, send me a private message in any language and we'll sort it out. I have found some forums in different languages on the car, but they basically are all inferior to what we got acces to here. So this is the place to come with your comments, questions and complaints.

[HEMEEE]

Very well-said Mathijskok!

And if you need any assistance with this forum, please do not hesitate to PM me, I am here day & night

[Mr.DJ]

Mathijs,

Well, as a fellow Dutchman (Nederlander), but who now resides here in the USA, I must commend you on your well-versed utilization of the English language. I still comprehend de Nederlandse taal, whether it be spoken or written, it's just that mijn Nederlandse schrijven is niet zo goed als it eenmaal was. I communicate with my relatives in Nederland on a daily basis, so please feel free to write to me (via a PM in Dutch if you like) whenever you may have a question, but may not quite be sure as to how to ask it in English. From what I've read from all of your posts to-date, you have absolutely nothing to be concerned about. BTW, yours might just be one of the 300Cs which my cousins see traversing de platteland van Nederland, Duitsland, en Oostenrijk.

You are also correct that the European 300C diesel versions are not available in the USA, especially here in California...where EPA regulations are one of the toughest in the country.

[choppersrule]

Pretty interesting thread Mathijs,

I'm German, living in the US for quite some time and I'm member of a couple of forums.

You are right that there are some fellows out there making fun of foreigners but the vast majority is very helpful and welcoming.

Since I live here my experience with Americans is overwhelmingly positive. My business brings me travelling all over the world and I rarely found people beeing so helpful and welcoming like the Americans.

So I'm sure that the members of this forum welcome every input from abroad.

And by the way, just look at your cars guys - what a combination of American Power and Design and European (German ) Engineering!!!

[mathijskok]

Originally Posted by Mr.DJ

Mathijs,

Well, as a fellow Dutchman (Nederlander), but who now resides here in the USA, I must commend you on your well-versed utilization of the English language. I still comprehend de Nederlandse taal, whether it be spoken or written, it's just that mijn Nederlandse schrijven is niet zo goed als it eenmaal was. I communicate with my relatives in Nederland on a daily basis, so please feel free to write to me (via a PM in Dutch if you like) whenever you may have a question, but may not quite be sure as to how to ask it in English. From what I've read from all of your posts to-date, you have absolutely nothing to be concerned about. BTW, yours might just be one of the 300Cs which my cousins see traversing de platteland van Nederland, Duitsland, en Oostenrijk.

You are also correct that the European 300C diesel versions are not available in the USA, especially here in California...where EPA regulations are one of the toughest in the country.

See? We Dutch are like weeds, we go anywhere and can't be killed, lol.

I find it strange that EPA regulations can be so different. A modern diesel is considered a rather good car for the enviroment in Europe as it is more efficient with its fuel. If you really want to drive a car this heavy it better be a diesel. heck I even got a green tax deduction sticker on my car. But honestly, if fuel prices were like in the US, there would not even be a 300c diesel in Europe. I love the torque and I love the way it jumps ahead of the Hemi from the traffic lights, but nothing beats big bore engines if you can afford them.

The main problem with diesel cars in urban areas is the fine particles. They really cause problems in major European cities, problems the US does not have. But per kilometer/mile, my diesel with its superb Mercedes diesel engine and the particle filter is most likely a lot cleaner then the big bore US style engines. Per liter/gallon of fuel used, the issue looks a bit different as diesel is in principle more efficient but more polluting.

[Mr.DJ]

Here are some articles which discuss California's diesel controvery...

...no light-duty diesel-powered vehicles are sold new in California, Maine, Massachusetts, New York or Vermont because of stricter emissions standards in those states. (Diesel-powered trucks, such as the heavy-duty versions of the Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra, Dodge Ram and Ford F-Series, fall under different emissions rules and they are permitted.)

Source: Edmunds.com

Diesel soot, or particulate matter (PM), is a dangerous pollutant that can penetrate deep into the lungs. People exposed to diesel soot can suffer from severe respiratory and cardiovascular illnesses, chronic bronchitis, cancer, and premature death. California, with the largest population of people and diesel vehicles in the country, is in essence a microcosm of the national health risks of diesel emissions.

Diesel Soot: A California Killer
In 2000, the California Air Resources Board (CARB) estimated that diesel PM was responsible for 70 percent of the state’s risk of cancer from airborne toxics (CARB, 2000c). Diesel engines often remain in operation for decades, with the older engines releasing the greatest amount of pollution. In 2004 alone, diesel pollution will cause an estimated 3,000 premature deaths in California—greater than the estimated 2,300 annual homicides in the state.1 In addition, diesel exhaust will cause an estimated 2,700 cases of chronic bronchitis and about 4,400 hospital admissions (including emergency room, or ER, visits) for cardiovascular and respiratory illnesses every year. The cost of these health impacts is $21.5 billion per year.

Source: UCSUSA.org

[flexion]

yes, thanks to fine particle pollution, last week we had a general speed limit of 80km/h (50mph) on all highways here... argh!!!

[mathijskok]

Originally Posted by Mr.DJ

Here are some articles which discuss California's diesel controvery...

Source: Edmunds.com

Source: UCSUSA.org

Yes, that is exactly the problem with diesels and for example a massive problem for The Netherlands and the greater Paris region. Too many old diesel cars, but as far as I know this problem is 100% removed with the particle filters that most modern diesels have. In the end, what counts, is the amount of emmision per kilometer/mile, not per liter/gallon.

The fine particle problem is also a local problem, it affects the persons close to the source, unlike greenhouse gasses etc that affect the planet. A good day of rain and the whole problem of particles is washed away. But if you live near a highway where a lot of cars stop and start during rush hour the problem gets real close. It was in fact one of the reasons I moved from The Netherlands. I want my kids to stay away from these avoidable problems. And as my jobs allow me to work anywhere, why not dot it.

[Murphy The Cat]

Dear North Americans

Just adding in my bit.

The diesel fuel that is used in America is, not to put to fine a point on it, crap.

So crap in fact that Arnie and other cars like him would refuse to drink it and just break down at the side of the road. It is a very lowly refined product and not a patch on what is sold in Europe.

Now for the good news.

New laws / regulations are coming into effect in Americaland soon. When these have taken place the situation will have been reversed. At this stage it will be American diesel which is refined to a higher standard and which contains less baddies.

You never know, if you behave well, eat up all of your greens, and be nice to Mom & Pop, then that nice Mr Chrysler may well bring his 300C CRD to America to play with and you folks will see why we like it so much !!

I really hope that they do because it would be a complete revelation.

MTC

p.s. I'll try and dig out the road test with a Merc ML Diesel and a Lexus SUV hybrid. It was quite interesting.

[LSV1970]

Originally Posted by mathijskok

But honestly, if fuel prices were like in the US, there would not even be a 300c diesel in Europe. I love the torque and I love the way it jumps ahead of the Hemi from the traffic lights, but nothing beats big bore engines if you can afford them.

The main problem with diesel cars in urban areas is the fine particles. They really cause problems in major European cities, problems the US does not have. But per kilometer/mile, my diesel with its superb Mercedes diesel engine and the particle filter is most likely a lot cleaner then the big bore US style engines. Per liter/gallon of fuel used, the issue looks a bit different as diesel is in principle more efficient but more polluting.

Here in Switzerland, we don't have any incentive on Diesel like in almost every Euro countries (95RON is about CHF 1.61 et Diesel is about CHF 1.79). Results are pretty clear: only 24% of new cars are diesels. Under 30'000 km(20'000 mi) a year, you won't find any interest with this stuff.
Some small Diesel get a little tax advantage with CO2 low emission (under 120 gr/km). Chrysler 300C : 3.5L : 264 gr/km / CRD : 215 gr/km / Hemi : 291 gr/km.

Last week my town hit 251μg/m3 microparticles (federal limit : 50μg/m3 ) caused by heater, trucks, diesel cars and chimneys. Shell V-Power Diesel or not, we were in trouble.

Euro incentives on Diesel came after WWII to help little companies during effort of rebuilding. Some car manufacturer began to build private cars to take benefit on this situation .... and we get the 2006 situation.

First Diesel car was a 1936 Mercedes 260D (basically for Cabs).