FAQ - Audio Upgrades

[Kaneda]

man, now i really have to upgrade my sounds.

here is what i have planned so far.

* mbquart 6.5 separates (discus) 2 pairs, one for the front and one for the rear.
* MTX Thunder564 4-channel car amplifier 70 watts RMS x 4 (powering the separates)

* JBL BPX1100.1 RMS Power: 1141W x 1 @ 4 Ohms THD at 4-Ohm RMS Power: 0.5 %
* Image Dynamics ID MAX 10 v.3 D4 (one in each corner of the trunk)
or i guess i could open up the rear deck and have them fire directly into the cab) but building the enclosure would be difficult.

anyone have any ideas on the best sounding enclosure location? i dont care about looks, just usability of the trunk and sound quality/quantity

michael

[el_duderino]

rogue, your FAQ post is excellently written. Thanks very much.

I have a question, however, in that early in your post you state that volume is controlled within the amplifier itself, but later you list the preamp signal wire colors.

If the volume is controlled remotely within the amp (a la GM and BMW, among others), then wouldn't that mean that the preamp signal can't be run directly into an aftermarket amplifier without some sort of preamp volume control? (JL Clean Sweep, Zapco SX, etc?)

We recently did a BMW X5 here where we had this problem - the customer stipulated that the steering wheel volume controls and built-in graphic EQ in his Nav HU had to work after we were done, and tapping that fixed line-level signal would have defeated his steering wheel controls (and I *think* his graphic EQ, I honestly didn't test that).

So we did the rack-o-Soundgate/Navone LOC's on the OEM amp outputs, and summed them together, thus retaining OEM preamp controls and allowing us to use our own crossover points. We used a parametric EQ to smooth out the OEM EQ curve and correct for phase cancellation after summing. I'm concerned that we need to do the same thing to this vehicle...

We will be doing one soon. Would you like a crossover frequency chart on the OEM system? We take an NT Acoustilyzer and measure each channel's output with pink noise before we take the speaker and throw it over our left shoulder...

[MauiHemi]

Originally Posted by el_duderino

rogue, your FAQ post is excellently written. Thanks very much.
. . . . . . . . .
So we did the rack-o-Soundgate/Navone LOC's on the OEM amp outputs, and summed them together, thus retaining OEM preamp controls and allowing us to use our own crossover points. We used a parametric EQ to smooth out the OEM EQ curve and correct for phase cancellation after summing. I'm concerned that we need to do the same thing to this vehicle...

We will be doing one soon. Would you like a crossover frequency chart on the OEM system? We take an NT Acoustilyzer and measure each channel's output with pink noise before we take the speaker and throw it over our left shoulder...

In the case of our beloved 300 do you think summing the 3.5 with the front 6x9 would give us a full range signal to use? By 'summed them' do you just connect them in parallel or do you use a special circuit for this?

Yes I would love the frequency chart when you make one. When I first connected my 15" sub I used the rear 6x9 speaker signals to feed my LOC's. I can tell you from experience that they have almost no bass on them. I ran the 7" sub signal to both each LOC's by connecting the channels in parallel on the speaker level side of the LOC. Still in the testing phases but so far it is sounding great.

[djjasond]

I have a question, however, in that early in your post you state that volume is controlled within the amplifier itself, but later you list the preamp signal wire colors. If the volume is controlled remotely within the amp (a la GM and BMW, among others), then wouldn't that mean that the preamp signal can't be run directly into an aftermarket amplifier without some sort of preamp volume control? (JL Clean Sweep, Zapco SX, etc?)

Note: I've removed my original comments about tapping the preamp signal for the time being here while we validate if the information is true for both the 2005 and 2006 models.

In the meantime, I have tapped the rear speakers and I'm using the AudioControl LC6 as my LOC. Please PM with specific questions.

....

After the factory amp...(call this the "best" feature retention option)
After tapping the rear speakers for my signal, the overall sound quality is very good but feels (subjective points here) a bit "bright". My unscientific ear says that the signal to the rear speakers is not completely full range and does have a good amount of bass eq'd out of it. The OEM crossover frequency chart from El Duderino should prove this out (please post). You should expect to give a good crank on your subwoofer amp gain to compensate for the lack of bass in the rear speaker signal if you go with this option. Finally, you still lose the ability to fade as the rear speakers give you just a two channel input. However, tapping the signal after the factory amp at the rear speakers allowed me to use the factory amp to continue to power the dash speakers and therefore UConnect. The factory amp also controls the mute function and automatically mutes the system when a call comes in or is made through UConnect. My original objective was to keep factory steering wheel controls and UConnect but add aftermarket amps and speakers. This was the only option I found as a Do It Yourself installer to keep all things working. I will play around with tapping the factory subwoofer signal as MauiHemi suggests to see if I get a better signal for my bass amp.

[el_duderino]

Jason, is the above post still accurate about losing the Uconnect and nav voice if the left front speaker is connected to the center speaker?

It was my understanding that the uconnect and nav audio signals went straight into the amp - is that correct?

[el_duderino]

OK, here's what I've now determined:

1) The signal out of the HU varies in behavior, depending on whether the factory amp is plugged in or not.

When the OE amp is plugged in, the signal out of the HU is fixed in level.

http://kward1.homestead.com/300chufixedop.html

When the OE amp is unplugged, the HU seems to "see" this, and the output is now varying with the volume setting.

However, whenever the analog audio lines from the HU to the OEM amp are cut loose, the HU stops passing the Nav voice or the Uconnect voice through to those outputs. We didn't need to have the whole amp unplugged, simply cutting the four audio lines was enough.

Also, in answering my above question, the Nav voice output and the Uconnect voice output go from their modules into the HU, on different pins, and then are passed through the outputs of the head unit.

As near as I can determine, the CAN bus controllers "see" the disconnect between the HU and the OE amp and signal for the HU to change behavior. The HU does still mute though, which obviously makes little sense.

2) In either mode the output of the HU is very high in voltage. No line drivers needed here.

3) The frequency response of the HU line output is flat above 20 or so, and below 20 or so has some sort of auto-loudness feature that at lowest volumes results in about an 8dB tilt from the bass to the treble.

http://kward1.homestead.com/300CHUOP.html

4) The F door speakers play from about 120 all the way down. The front dash speakers play from 100 and up, with a significant rolloff at about 16kHz. The R deck 6x9s play from 100 Hz and up with a slight rolloff at about 18k. The R deck "sub" plays from 50 and down and is the least-eq'd signal from the amp.

(Note: The above has been corrected to properly describe the front dash rolloff in the highs...)

For pics of all but the sub output:

http://kward1.homestead.com/300campop.html

[HaTaX]

Wow! You guys rock... This is the first post in the forum where I feel some people are making some real educated responses on system upgrades.

I upgraded my 3.5s to Infinitys and left the rest of my system alone because I feel the balance is quite good for a factory system... To get a cleaner system while maintaining balance would cost quite a few bucks, that's why I onlny changed the 3.5s, removed the 7" sub and added a 12" Infinity Perfect. Great sound and good balance, I'm happy.

I will be moving my sub into the spare tire well just to reclaim my passthrough trunk as I feel I'll use that more then I'll use my spare tire....

Thanks guys!!!

[Bommers]

I have a 6 speaker boston system, I really would like to add a 10" Infinity perfect driver in the empty hole on the rear deck for a sub. If the rear 6x9s roll off at 100hz, that seems like a bad place to try to tap in for an aftermarket amp in the trunk for the sub. I want to leave the rest factory for now. Could I tap into factory deck output, before the factory amp, and still allow factory amp to run as is?

I was going to replace those pathetic 6x9s in back till I saw the freq. response the factory amp is rolling off. I haven't seen whizzer cone paper tweets like that in years. What a crappy driver!!!!!!!!!!

[el_duderino]

WHen the OEM amp is in place, the preamp signal from the HU to the amp does not change in volume, so you couldn't do it that way.

But don't assume that the non-sub Boston systems roll off the low end. If there's no sub, the amp might play the by-nines all the way down. Know any shop with an RTA?

[Jesus Chrysler]

Originally Posted by rogue

Head Unit/Source Unit Questions:

You can use Metra Dash kit #99-6507 for the 2004 Dodge Durango. This fits the Magnum and also the 300c. It has half moon shapes on the sides to fill out the space where your factory radio had it's knobs.

Metra Dash kit #99-6507:

thanks for this wealth of info rogue. i found this METRA kit on circuit city:

http://www.circuitcity.com/rpsm/oid/...Detail.do#tabs

does it match the one you are talking about? the description and number match but the pic on the site looks different to your pic. is this item what i need to fit a single DIN retractable nav unit in my 300c? thanks.