39 MPG Average by 2016. Can HEMI and/or SRT8 survive?

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Guys!!

I hope you're OK.

White House to announce tougher new fuel economy standards. Passenger cars - by 2016 - must AVERAGE 39 MPG. Think about that for a second. Is there ANY hope for the HEMI V8 and/or ANY SRT8 to survive?!

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090...rd+set+for++16

Craig!!

[stevesrt8]

While I am happy to see you up and at 'em, I don't like this trend.


When our government runs the car biz we will all be mandated to drive some electric whizzer-car!

Looks like my SRT8 will be kept for the rest of my life!

[CJ7VFR]

What this means is that across the entire line of vehicles a manufacturer makes, an average of 35.5 miles per gallon
must be met. It does NOT mean that ALL the vehicles a manufacturer makes must get 35.5 miles per gallon.

Here is a quote from the article:

The proposal will force automakers to meet a fleetwide average of 35.5 mpg by 2016

"Fleetwide average" means the average across the entire fleet of vehicles from the worst gas guzzler to the highest mpg
hybrid little crap box. The average gas milage of the entire fleet must come out to at least 35.5 mpg.

For example sake, lets say that the new Dodge Ram with a Hemi engine gets the worst gas milage of all the
vehicles Dodge makes. It averages about 17 mpg right now with the current Hemi engine.

That would mean that Dodge would also have to build some type of vehicle that would average 54 mpg
in order to meet the 35.5 mpg standard.

To get a car to average 54 mpg would mean it would have to be very small, and have a tiny engine with
hybrid technology. Even the Prius doesn't average 54 mpg yet. Its still in the 51/48 range.

Its a fleetwide average, not an individual requirement per vehicle. So there is still hope for our Hemi's.

People will still want their huge SUV's and fast cars. They sell too many of them to just kill them off.

I bet most of the car manufactures will start to make those stupid "smart car" death traps to boost
up their fleetwide average mpg in order to save their bread and butter gas guzzlers.

If they can get the Hemi's gas milage up some, even just an mpg or two, it would help, but car
manufactures are still going to have to come up with cars that can get 60 plus mpg in order to
meet the new federal standards. And thats going to be the tough part. To come up with vehicles
that can offset the gas millage of the gas guzzlers people really want to drive.

Jim

[Rambit]

Originally Posted by CJ7VFR

What this means is that across the entire line of vehicles a manufacturer makes, an average of 35.5 miles per gallon
must be met. It does NOT mean that ALL the vehicles a manufacturer makes must get 35.5 miles per gallon.

My sentiments exactly Jim. Flood the market with little Fiat like cars and we'll be fine. Too much negative stuff lately. Think positive!!!

Bernie

[stevesrt8]

I'm sure no one else knew what CAFE was. How helpful.

The problem here is that consumers HAVE voted already. With their pocketbooks.

The less well off buy the tiny little econoboxes and the higher incomes buy the big gas hungry sleds. It's survival of the 'economically fittest'.

What you guys don't see coming is a huge increase in the gas tax structure. This will be an attempt to push you into a smaller car.

Get it yet?

[SRT8DRVR]

Originally Posted by CJ7VFR

What this means is that across the entire line of vehicles a manufacturer makes, an average of 35.5 miles per gallon
must be met. It does NOT mean that ALL the vehicles a manufacturer makes must get 35.5 miles per gallon.

Here is a quote from the article:



"Fleetwide average" means the average across the entire fleet of vehicles from the worst gas guzzler to the highest mpg
hybrid little crap box. The average gas milage of the entire fleet must come out to at least 35.5 mpg.

For example sake, lets say that the new Dodge Ram with a Hemi engine gets the worst gas milage of all the
vehicles Dodge makes. It averages about 17 mpg right now with the current Hemi engine.

That would mean that Dodge would also have to build some type of vehicle that would average 54 mpg
in order to meet the 35.5 mpg standard.

To get a car to average 54 mpg would mean it would have to be very small, and have a tiny engine with
hybrid technology. Even the Prius doesn't average 54 mpg yet. Its still in the 51/48 range.

Its a fleetwide average, not an individual requirement per vehicle. So there is still hope for our Hemi's.

People will still want their huge SUV's and fast cars. They sell too many of them to just kill them off.

I bet most of the car manufactures will start to make those stupid "smart car" death traps to boost
up their fleetwide average mpg in order to save their bread and butter gas guzzlers.

If they can get the Hemi's gas milage up some, even just an mpg or two, it would help, but car
manufactures are still going to have to come up with cars that can get 60 plus mpg in order to
meet the new federal standards. And thats going to be the tough part. To come up with vehicles
that can offset the gas millage of the gas guzzlers people really want to drive.

Jim

I think the fleet averages are weighted based on numbers of cars sold. So if they are selling lots of hybrids or other high effciency cars they can afford to sell a few specialty cars in low volumes without drastically affecting their fleet averages. Whether SUV's remain outside the CAFE rules is not clear to me yet. That's how the manufacturers got away with it before.

[Rambit]

Up the gas guzzler tax so we can play!!!

Bernie

[CJ7VFR]

Since the CAFE standards have been in place since 1975, the federal government has raised the average mpg
requirements from time to time. And all along, the big cars and trucks were still made, as they also made smaller cars to offset
the huge gas guzzlers.

Like you said, its the people who voted to put these requirements into place, and every time they raise the standards,
we complain, and then just suck it up, and do what we can to keep moving along, just like we have for the last
34 years.

As long as they make large cars, there will always be people to buy them. The only way this will stop, is if
the vehicle manufacturers actually stop making them, which will force everyone into smaller cars as you said.

And if thats the case, as long as there is a used car market, I will have a large vehicle, because I feel my
family is safer in that then a Prius.

When you look at it, 34 years ago, I bet there was no one in the world that thought
any vehicle manufacturer could produce a V-8 engine, that puts out 340 HP/390 torque and could
still turn in ratings of 20 mpg like our 5.7 Hemi's can do now. Or god forbid, an engine that could
put out 425 hp and still get 17 to 18 mpg like the 6.1 can!

In 1975, if you had a V-8 Camaro, with a 350 in it, it only put out about 145 hp/250 torque! How bad is that!

So, although I hate the CAFE, its because of them that we now have our cars
with such great engines. Without the CAFE standards, there would have been no insentives
to try to build higher milage, more powerful V-8 engines.

So at least something good has come from it. And hopefully even better technology will come from
it in the coming years.

At least we can hope...

Jim

[fadertoo]

Originally Posted by stevesrt8

What you guys don't see coming is a huge increase in the gas tax structure. This will be an attempt to push you into a smaller car.

Bingo! The fact that hybrids were selling at sticker or more when US gas prices were north of $4/gal. while 600,000 hybrids languished on dealer lots in February when prices were closer to $2/gal. has not been lost on the Obama administration. After the recession cools, look for the Federal gas excise tax to start climbing rapidly toward $2.50+/gal. The auto makers are in favor of it too, as stated by no less than Bob Lutz almost a year ago. They want the stability of knowing consumers will be buying the econoboxes they're being forced to build.

[Lucky]

My 6.1 is a hybrid, it burns gas and rubber! Do I get a discount for that?