How I was ripped off - by a Forum member!

[JustForFun]

I want everyone to made aware of how I was taught a lesson recently and got ripped-off by one of our very own - a forum member. The following tale is going to be long and thorough, so be prepared. I apologize for it's length.

Let me preface this by saying a couple things first.

I feel that our forum home truly needs a place (sub-forum) where we can discuss "good" and "bad" buyers and sellers that do personal business here. While I do appreciate having a place for us to conduct private sales/purchases within the "Buy/Sell" forum - we also need a place to promote those who are great to deal with and those who aren't. This could provide a valuable service to the members and help to weed out those who are here only to rip off other forum members. I don't pretend to believe this will be an ultimate solution to bad deals - but it would be something - another tool - another resource. And I'm for anything we can do to prevent jerks from doing business on here. I know that over on LXfroums that actually have a feedback system, similar to what Ebay uses. It would be great if something like that could be implemented here.

Secondly, I realize that my loss here only amounts to $45, but I do believe that we should be held accountable for our actions on this forum, be they good or bad. While my loss isn't that large, the next person's might be. By me bringing to light my experience with this user, it may prevent someone else from losing much more. If this person isn't made to account "publicly" for ripping off a member, then he would be allowed to freely roam the board and possibly do it again to another. I had my eyes opened the hard way. Hopefully I can spare someone that grief.

Those things being said - on to the details of how I got ripped off by *drumroll*.....300cp. Click here to see his user profile.

On January 25, 300cp (Luke Stouffer) made the following post in which he was selling, according to him, a

New Ostress Emblem / New Precision Mesh Grill

I wasn't interested in the grill but I did PM Luke about the O Stress emblem. You may notice that the text of the post no longer mentions the O Stress emblem, but that is because after I sent my PayPal payment on Jan 25, Luke immediately edited the post on Jan. 26, removing any reference whatsoever to the O Stress emblem he sold me. He eventually sold the grill as well, but the information about it still remains. Why take out the O Stress info but leave the grill info? Unfortunatley, I think I know why.....now. : In fact, two days later on Jan. 28, Luke made another post, which can be seen here, in which he inquires on how to delete a post he has made. I firmly believe he was hoping to delete the entire post altogether, thus covering his tracks completely, but found out that wasn't possible.

It should be noted that although Luke edited the post and removed the info about the emblem he sold me, he was not permitted to edit the TITLE of the post and it continues to state what the post also originally said - "New Ostress Emblem". This is what I thought I was purchasing. It is not what I received. I do remember the original text of what Luke posted about the emblem and I will attempt to paraphrase it here:

BRAND NEW OSTRESS EMBLEM. BOUGHT BUT NEVER USED. I DECIDED I PREFER TO KEEP 'EM GUESSING

I felt that the price we agreed to was fair ($45 - which included shipping) as it also saved me the trouble of having to ship a grill to O Stress to get it made. And - it was "new", and purported to have never been mounted on a car. Good deal - or so I thought. The negotiations and information sharing happened quickly, a mistake on my part, and I received the emblem on Jan 31. However, I didn't actually open the package until Feb. 5 because I was out of town on a personal matter when it arrived.

Upon my return and after opening the package I knew immediatley I had been lied to.
It was clear the emblem was not "new" and had obviously been on a car before. There is a very dirty uneven layer of silicone on the back of the emblem and the chrome has some (for lack of a better word) "rippling" along the top edges, where it appears there may have been some stress applied while removing it from the car. I'm confident the chrome will eventually start to peel and flake in this area. Also, Luke included a tube of silicone to attach it to the car, but it had been "opened and used" already. See the pictures below:

PICTURES

To get his response to what I received, I fired off a PM to Luke.

Hello.

I wanted to tell you I got the Ostress emblem last week. In your original post you said the emblem was "new". It is clear that this emblem has been already mounted on your car before.

What is the story with this? How old is this actually and how long was it on your car?

JFF

Luke wrote back the following:

Are your refering to the silcone glue on the back which is put on there by Ostress to create a flat surface and cover up any sharp edges?

Yes, the glue was a little dirty, because it was sitting in my garage and attracted dust which is impossible to clean off the silicone.

Luke

Contact Ostress and ask him if he puts the glue on the back to prevent you from getting cut and to create a flat surface.

What a great idea!! So I did. I sent O Stress (a very classy guy, I might add) some pictures and we exchanged several emails back and forth and what he had to say was this

i never ship open tubes of silicone. so i would not trust what was sent to you. the emblem has definatly been applied to a car before. the silicone on the back should be very smooth to the touch and look...this one does not appear to be. the silicone in the pic is the correct type of silicone, but not the brand i send with the emblem.....i use the g.e. brand.dark blue and whte tube and if yours has been opened, buy a new one. i can not gaurantee your emblem will adhere correctly, as it has been applied before.

This does not make me feel better, but I did appreciate O Stress taking time out of his day to give me his honest assessment. Thank you Jeff.

So now I am annoyed that I have something I paid $45 for that is NEVER going to go on my car. I simply can't trust it will stay on AND further, the chrome is messed up on the edges. So, on Feb. 13 I see that Luke is online and I send him another PM.

Well Luke,

I did what you said and sent Jeff some pictures of the emblem and this is exactly what he had to say:

"........the emblem has definatly been applied to a car before. the silicone on the back should be very smooth to the touch and look...this one does not appear to be."

AND

"the silicone in the pic is the correct type of silicone, but not the brand i send with the emblem.....i use the g.e. brand.dark blue and whte tube and if yours has been opened, buy a new one."

Also, the tube you sent me WAS already opened AND a different type altogether (GREEN and WHITE - not blue). Why would you send me an OPEN tube if you never applied the emblem?? Why not just send me the unopened one Jeff sent you?

Something is fishy about this Luke, and I'm not happy about it. You "clearly" indicated that the emblem was new, which implies it had never been applied. I and Jeff both feel that this is NOT the case with what you sent me. If you doubt me, ask him yourself.

Now what do you want to do to resolve this?

JFF

Most of the day goes by and I can see that Luke is actively online, but I get no response from him. So later that evening, I send another PM.

I see that you are online and I would like to know how you would like to resolve the issue with the "used" OStress emblem you sold me.

When I emailed Jeffrey, he also told me:

"I can not gaurantee your emblem will adhere correctly, as it has been applied before."

This cetainly worries me as well, and I would simply rather not deal with the hassle and the worry. I would appreciate it if you would get in touch with me as I need to see this resolved soon.

I await your reply.

JFF

Now two days go by and still no response from Luke. I'm starting to resign myself to the fact that I am out $45 and stuck with a damaged O Stress emblem mod, but I decide to make one final attempt to contact Luke to see if we can resolve this. On Feb. 15, I send him another PM.

Luke,

I have sent you two PM's regarding the O Stress emblem you sent me an my unhappiness with it's condition. It has obviously been used by you and that is NOT what I thought I was buying. Also, after looking at the emblem closer, I have discovered the chrome edges of the emblem are "rippled" - most likely caused by your removal of the emblem.

You have YET to respond to me about how you wish to resolve this, YET I can see that you have been online SEVERAL times in the last few days. Your profile says that you were online as recently as last night (2/14) at 10:11 PM.

It is clear to me you are avoiding this issue.

If I don't hear from you by tonight with a satisfactory response, then I will consider posting about my experience with you on the board. I feel others should be made aware of this for any future business dealings they might consider with you.

Please don't let it come to this.

JFF

Most of the day goes buy and FINALLY, the the Great 300cp blesses me with a response. What will he say?!?! Will he rise above his 18 years of immaturity and spoiled upbringing?? Ummmmmmmmm........no. Here is what he had to say.

The Funny thing is your getting mad a an 18 year old who sold you an item which you are not satisfied with and theres nothing you can do about it except tell me that you are going to tell on me like a little bitch to the rest of the forums members. Do you really think I give a ****? You gave me money, i gave you the item, even sale, except someone is having a little hissy fit because they wasted $45 on a ****ing chrome piece of plastic. I just can see how you are getting frustrated over $45. You could have avoided this whole problem if you just went to ostress and paid $15 more for a emblem straight from him, but just like the old saying goes "you get what you paid for!" And you took that chance and there is nothing I can to to calm you down or help you with this little bitch fit your having. I dont really give a ****, its your problem.

As for me Im doing fine and I love my 300c, I hope you have time to stop bitching and start enjoying yours also

Shado'

Hmmmmmmmmmm....that was a real grown-up response, huh? Not sure what the Shado' moniker is about, but I'm pretty sure it has to be a generation gap thing.

Regardless, Luke is not going to play ball here and is obviously setting a bad example for 18 years olds around the world.

So here I am, wondering what to do next. I realize now that I have been taught a life lesson and will certainly use it to be more careful in the future conducting private purchases and sales. I have been online for over 10 years now and have purchased and sold hundreds of items online privately, on Ebay, and on this very board and have NEVER been ripped off - until now. That's a pretty good track record I think, and I'm not going to let one bad apple ruin my day...or my fun. I "should" have been more careful and done some research on 300cp/Luke Stouffer before I so quickly took the bait. And I usually do. I am normally not one to jump at the first opportunity and am usually pretty obsessive about making myself feel comfortable before making my purchases. But I let my guard down this one time and I got burned.:.

Although I should have done this before I made my purchase, I "did" do some further research on 300cp and here are some interesting things I came up with.

First, Luke is the son of the famous, Marty Stouffer of "Wild America" fame. I have watched that show for years and I have always loved it. Here is a link to some info on Luke's father and his show. In fact, Luke can be seen in this endearing family photo from that same page.

Luke is the young whipper-snapper sitting on daddy's lap. Luke has even posted about his famous father on our forum. As further proof, the package Luke sent me has a return address of:

Marty Stouffer Productions LTD.

I wonder what his famous father would say about how Luke has handled himself with this issue?

In this post about his car, he states:

Here is a pic of it in the Fall w/ my grill and OStress emblem mod.

In another post here,he boasts:

I got the first grill w/ a OSTRESS EMBLEM MOD

If you read the entire thread, he is talking about the "Precision Grill". I'm willing to bet that is the very same Precision grill that Luke sold as "new" as well.

I wish I would have seen these posts "before" I purchased his "new" O Stress mod.

You can clearly see the O Stress emblem mounted on his grill in this pic Luke attached to those posts.

As recently as Feb. 1, you can see in this post Luke's stated intention to replace his Precision Grill and O Stress emblem mod and

Get the T-Rex Polished Grill (which I am) w/ no emblem

Again, I wish I had seen these before I had made my purchase. It is now clear Luke replaced his old setup with a new one and, in turn, sold off the used items as "new". And that folks is where I came in. Lucky me.

In the end, it's not the end of the world, but I felt others here should be made aware. This isn't a rant and shouldn't be taken as such. I'll take my loss and move on. Although I will file a grievance with PayPal. I doubt it will do much good, but it's worth a try.

Part of what Luke said sticks with me though.

You could have avoided this whole problem if you just went to ostress and paid $15 more for a emblem straight from him, but just like the old saying goes "you get what you paid for!"

Yeah, I should have just went to Jeff to begin with. He is a class act. Unlike you, Luke.

And as far as getting "what you paid for". That's just it Luke. With you, I didn't. I hope you enjoy your $45 and just remember that what comes around, goes around. You'll get yours eventually. People like you always do.

Now, I'm off to PayPal to file my grievance.....and maybe to call your father.

JFF

EDITED TO ADD:

I have also posted about this user over on www.lxforums.com as he is also a memer there. You can read about it here.

[Rambit]

Unreal to say the least. I like how he stressed he was an 18 year old kid. I don't know what can be done about this, but everytime I see him on, I'll be remembering this story. Hopefully he'll bow to peer pressure and do the right thing.

I really don't care who his father is cuz I've never heard of him. He raised a fine BOY, who maybe someday will become a man. Sorry about your luck. Hope it works out for you.

EDIT: Saw his thread where he proudly said "Yup, he's my dad". Wonder if dad would say, "Yup, he's my son".

Rambit

[artichoke]

JFF,

Thanks very much for posting this information. 300cp, we're all waiting to hear your side of the story.

On ebay the problem with "feedback" is that negative feedback hardly ever gets posted. Instead, the buyer threatens to post negative feedback and it's worked out quietly between them with no public trace. Then the next buyer has to go thru the same hoops. I used to think that everyone on ebay must be a saint with all these 99% and higher ratings. But no, bad transactions happen and are never reported.

Posting negative feedback is a public service, because you are unlikely to gain anything by it. Thank you again.

And 300cp, please post your side of this. I'll believe what JFF says unless you give me a reason not to.

[mjr5150]

I think you showed remarkable(now undeserved) restraint in trying to handle this situation privately.He probably is to shallow to care what any of us feel about the way he handled himself,but he is sure to get killed in here by people who are in every way , his superiors.Sorry for your bad experience JFF and Luke it's not the $45 , it's the principal(look it up under p) of it.

[goddardzilla]

"Shado' "

Based on what JFF posted, Here's the Math:

Redemption = $45 + A public apology + a dollar amount for wasting so much of JFF's time.



Plus go take some kind of Ethics course.




Zilla

[cmego]

JFF, you can file a dispute claim with Paypal. Sounds like you have enough evidence to make your claim stick.

[SMKN300]

JFF, sorry to hear this kind of thing between forum members. I would be interested in hearing what the admins think about this and is there a punishment that should be levied against a member like this?

[Northern Rider]

Originally Posted by SMKN300

JFF, sorry to hear this kind of thing between forum members. I would be interested in hearing what the admins think about this and is there a punishment that should be levied against a member like this?

Well, since you asked, here is my take as a Moderator -



JFF, you have presented your case with great detail, eloquence and restraint.

300cp, it is now your turn to have your say.

[bruno]

JFF,

This situation along with the quoted exchanges is unbelievable! Your patience and self-control are commendable. The responses from the member in question are very immature and unprofessional to say the least. There are always two sides to a story so I welcome giving this member the opportunity to publicly defend his side. Should he fail to do so or respond in an immature, inappropriate manner, then I’m all for seeing him banned from our forum.

bruno

[HealeyRick]

Does the name "Charlie Wenzel" ring a bell?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=399203

Rick