Boycott Citgo Gas

[upstate]

Originally Posted by marlinspike

Because Bush lied about his military service and went AWOL (well...people like to say he went AWOL, but the amount of time he was absent actually qualifies him as a deserter).

And growing government at the expensive of the powers of state governments (there are many examples of this, but No Child Left Behind is the one I'll cite here since it's the least controversial) and at the expense of the rights/privacies of the people is power-mongering in my book.

First things first you said "I never said I'm compassionate. On the misspelling point, you must be fairly new here."

Ha, I must be new hear? You are member number 2207, I am member number 73! Yea I must be new here!

So it sounds like you have a dislike for our president and since these dictators do to you go along with them. Wow. Again back to what I said about family before, I can say my brothers an idiot but you can't. Same thing you can be upset with our President but I don't want to hear non American's step foot on our soil and say it.
As far as your earlier comment about all who are in the US have the right to free speech not just American's, with that logic you are saying just because they step foot on our soil they have all the rights a citizen has? I don't think so. Many brave American's have fought a died to protect our rights and freedoms, for our citizens and when its refereed to and for all who come here. It refers to all who want to be here not a dictator who takes advantage of our system to promote there cause and take down our system.

Then you stated:
Explain to me the threat that a nuclear Iran would directly pose to the United States. That sort of long range delivery capability is amazingly hard to come by, not to mention that the offensive use of nuclear weapons is impractical. Mutually assured destruction is still as strong a deterrent as it was during the Cold War. People automatically assume nuclear weapons are dangerous, but there is no reason to. During the Cold War the US and USSR were prevented from the large scale war Stalin predicted (before their acquisition of nuclear weapons) at least in part because of the stabilizing power of nuclear weapons. Following the decolonization of India, India and Pakistan went to war 3 times (1947, 1965, 1971), but since the first nuclear explosion in India in 1974, they have not fought a war. It is without a doubt that Indian nuclear acquisition begat nuclear proliferation in Pakistan, but it is quite reasonable to posit that the nuclearization of the two nations has also led to an increase in stability in that regional conflict.

What you fail to see is most terrorist operate without a country. If Iran shot up a nuke we could handle it but when Iran has nukes that they supply to a terrorist, they use a nuke on us in NYC or a dirty bomb overhead, who do you fire back at. With the USSR it was easier, they fire some at us we send some back. When you do not have a country to shoot back at what do you do. Just like the morning of 911 if one of those planes had a dirty bomb on it who would we of shot back at then? I mean then as in instantaneously? Like you would do if a country was firing them? That is what makes the hunt for BL so difficult he is a man without a country. We no longer are fighting a country like has been done for hundreds of years we are very often fighting a person that can go from country to country.


Understand our enemy today is more dangerous than any we have ever faced. They want you dead, they want your sister dead, they want to destroy all American's and will if they are able to.

[mikeguil]

WOW... I didn't know so many 300C SRT8 owners were right-wing, neo-conservative, blood & guts, self-righteous, polarizing wingnuts! I'll have to get a "Save America - Vote for a Democrat" bumper sticker to distinguish my black pearl SRT8 from the others. Too bad it has come to this. PS.. I sure do miss the good ole' days of Bill Clinton...

[marlinspike]

Originally Posted by upstate

First things first you said "I never said I'm compassionate. On the misspelling point, you must be fairly new here."

Ha, I must be new hear? You are member number 2207, I am member number 73! Yea I must be new here!

So it sounds like you have a dislike for our president and since these dictators do to you go along with them. Wow. Again back to what I said about family before, I can say my brothers an idiot but you can't. Same thing you can be upset with our President but I don't want to hear non American's step foot on our soil and say it.
As far as your earlier comment about all who are in the US have the right to free speech not just American's, with that logic you are saying just because they step foot on our soil they have all the rights a citizen has? I don't think so. Many brave American's have fought a died to protect our rights and freedoms, for our citizens and when its refereed to and for all who come here. It refers to all who want to be here not a dictator who takes advantage of our system to promote there cause and take down our system.
[snip]
What you fail to see is most terrorist operate without a country. If Iran shot up a nuke we could handle it but when Iran has nukes that they supply to a terrorist, they use a nuke on us in NYC or a dirty bomb overhead, who do you fire back at. With the USSR it was easier, they fire some at us we send some back. When you do not have a country to shoot back at what do you do. Just like the morning of 911 if one of those planes had a dirty bomb on it who would we of shot back at then? I mean then as in instantaneously? Like you would do if a country was firing them? That is what makes the hunt for BL so difficult he is a man without a country. We no longer are fighting a country like has been done for hundreds of years we are very often fighting a person that can go from country to country.


Understand our enemy today is more dangerous than any we have ever faced. They want you dead, they want your sister dead, they want to destroy all American's and will if they are able to.

On the first part, I wasn't looking at member numbers when I said that. So, if you've been here so long how'd you fail to know I was just giving Rambit a little ribbing?
I don't go along with the "dictators," but I am willing to recognize that some of them get an undeservedly bad rap. No, you don't get all the rights of a citizen by being on our soil, but IIRC you still get the ones that the courts have identified as being essential to humanity (for instance the prohibition against indentured servitude), and that would include the right to free speech. This could be all changed over the past few years, but I think it still works that way. Either way, I think that with regards to the rights thast we base on principle, for us to say we believe in them we have to offer them to all. People often forget that it hasn't just been Americans who have fought and died for this country. There have been non-citizens enlisted in our military as well.

And why do we just assume Iran would give nukes to any of the terrorist organizations? Another point people often forget is that Hezbollah operates within the Lebanese government, thus they have a homeland they are fighting for. Iranian support of Hezbollah is complicated, but to sum it up, it is done more to shame Saudi Arabia than anything. Also, do you think a country would take the risk of being traced to a terrorist nuclear explosion, i.e. risk facing total destruction for a cause that isn't even their own? People think because we have this one snippet translated from Ahmadinejad where he said Israel shouldn't be on the map that he is some bloodthirsty war monger who is going to kill all the Jews. People fail to look at the context, to see what he was actually saying was that Israel should have been carved out of Germany, and what's more is people forget that there is a sizeable, unharrased, Jewish population in Iran. Wouldn't he be killing those people if he was as nuts and bloodthirsty as we say he is?

Our enemy today is more dangerous than any we have ever faced? They don't really have any capability of taking over our government, the total number of people worldwide who die from terrorism in a year is about the same as the number of people in the US who drown in their bathtubs. Since the late 1960's when the State Dept started counting, as many Americas have died from peanut allergies as have died from terrorism. Outside of 9/11, never have more than 329 people been killed in a single terrorist attack. I agree it's awful and we should take steps to limit it as best we can, but I don't think it's the greatest danger have ever faced. I'd say the British were in 1812.

[mjr5150]

I've watched you spew your vile comment's long enough . What did you lose on 9/11 you self - serving detestable, opinionated clod ? Watch the attacks in High-definition did you ? It must be real easy for the likes of you , Teahead or anybody else for that matter to comment on national security from your high perch . I don't wan't your sympathy , nor expect you to comprehend but I was 15 blocks away and saw more than my fare share of horror that day . Had to escape the city and round up two of my family members in Manhattan . Lost a very good friend ( A heroic firefighter named Doug Miller ) and an aquiantance ( A trader named John- Worked for Cantor Fitzgerald). Doug left behind three young kids and a beautiful wife , John had five children . Maybe i'm misreading you ( I doubt it ) but did they deserve this for your perception of our government's past transgressions ?? Do I value your privacy rights over their lives ..........NOPE !!! The government wasn't exactly phonetapping soccer mom's now were they ? I really don't have the time , interest or the energy to battle you point by point . .........I see that as a pointless endeavor . But I will ask you this . Try to be a little more sensitive to others as you spew your anti-government , anti - establishment venom. Especially if it is on a car forum that some of us come to ........to forget the pain of our memories and talk about the things we enjoy........like our cars . The thread starter (Rambit) was simply stating his dislike for Chavez and to think about filling up elsewhere . It was not an invitation to do what you did . Not here. And you know it . Take care of yourself and I hope you re-think expessing your unwelcome opinions in the future . Mike .

Originally Posted by marlinspike

Because Bush lied about his military service and went AWOL (well...people like to say he went AWOL, but the amount of time he was absent actually qualifies him as a deserter).

And growing government at the expensive of the powers of state governments (there are many examples of this, but No Child Left Behind is the one I'll cite here since it's the least controversial) and at the expense of the rights/privacies of the people is power-mongering in my book.

[marlinspike]

Originally Posted by mjr5150

Maybe i'm misreading you ( I doubt it ) but did they deserve this for your perception of our government's past transgressions ??

If you think my answer to that is yes, then you are misreading me in a big way. I have more reason to hate the terrorist groups than most, as much as all but a few, having personal loss because of their actions(before 9/11). In addition to the losses of my family, my family has family friends that ended up literally chopped into pieces at their hands. I have my opinions because I think they will better prevent terrorism. Also, for the record, I'm not anti-government/anti-establishent in the least.
Since you asked nicely (I mean that sincerely...it'd be easy to misread but you did ask from the heart and I think nicely), I won't express further opinions on this matter.

[mjr5150]

Thank you and i am truly sorry for your losses . I wish we could all argee on a way to solve these bastards but the infighting and posturing from all sides of our Government will apparently preclude this from happening . Sad .....very sad . Take care .

Originally Posted by marlinspike

If you think my answer to that is yes, then you are misreading me in a big way. I have more reason to hate the terrorist groups than most, as much as all but a few, having personal loss because of their actions(before 9/11). In addition to the losses of my family, my family has family friends that ended up literally chopped into pieces at their hands. I have my opinions because I think they will better prevent terrorism. Also, for the record, I'm not anti-government/anti-establishent in the least.
Since you asked nicely (I mean that sincerely...it'd be easy to misread but you did ask from the heart and I think nicely), I won't express further opinions on this matter.

[MrHappy]

Well you couldn't resist could you? I said tell me what you would do without attacking what others have done wrong and you replied:

To be fair, this was directed toward me and your comment was based on someone else's reply. (Again, couldn't resist despite the obvious intensity of this thread. It's just in my nature I guess)

As far as the rest of the posts, if anyone cares, at least for myself and I would guess others, as soon as the name calling and wide sweeping generalizations come out, your arguments instantly carry a LOT less weight.

Ok, now have at it!

[Rambit]

I think once the remarks came out about Bush being the devil, this thread got resurected again. It's probably in the best interest of everyone if this thread gets closed because I don't think the politics of it all is good for any of us here on a car forum. It can only create ill will if it goes any further. We all know where we stand and should just do what we think is right.

Richard (marlinspike) reads too much and we've had a great time in the past. It's always been with a little humour too with no hard feelings. He gets beat up over topics such as this, yet still comes back for more. JMatt's not around these days otherwise he would have given him a piece of his mind...haha. He's more than capable of defending his point of view, even though he's just a snot nosed kid, barely into puberty! He's a good guy, just greatly misunderstood, and like I said, reads way too much for his own good. Knowing his background, I appreciate what he's referring to when he mentioned his family's experience with terrorism.

With the above in mind, I'd like Linda to close this thread, but I would appreciate if Richard gave one last comment if he so chooses. He doesn't sleep much, so I don't think we're talking a protracted time frame here.

Rambit

[HEMEEE]

Richard stated he would not comment further, and it's been several hours already, so...

Closed-- gladly!
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