Is there a bigger hypocrite?

[Cibalo]

Here is the link on the dust-to-dust comparison.

High lights

Neon $0.641/mile
Dakota $1.229/mile
Durango $1.572/miles
BMW 3 series $1.586/mile
Jeep GC $1.808/mile
H3 $2.069/mile
300 $2.197/mile
Viper $2.355/mile
Prius $2.865/mile
Vette $3.196/mile
Escape Hybrid $3.540/mile
H2 $3.585/mile
Lambo $4.271/mile
Bently $10.631/mile
Maybach $15.837/mile

Industry Average $2.946/mile

[marlinspike]

Originally Posted by Cibalo

Hydrogen generated from a coal isn't really that green.

How about hydrogen extracted using aluminum/gallium alloy?

[djhelios]

No matter how many prius we buy we cant save the planet. Its course of nature. I dont like it when people think they are better than me bc they drive a camry or prius. I am all for finding a new energy source bc we are gone run out of oil but not because we are messing up the planet. How about we start with overpopulation first? I was at a gas station and some prius owner had a fit bc she saw 300c hemi badge on the car. I was suprised that she knew what it meant.......

[CUEBALL]

I agree... the single biggest effect we can have on pollution is less people, but bring that up in a group and see the fight start.....

[Cibalo]

Originally Posted by marlinspike

How about hydrogen extracted using aluminum/gallium alloy?

It would take a lot of AlGa to produce hydrogen in any useful quantity. To make it effective you would need to be able to recycle the AlO2 produced in the reaction with the Ga to remake the alloy. Unless you use electricity produced from a nuclear reactor or wind turbines you are going to use more energy to recycle the material than you would get out of using it to split water to make hydrogen. Why? Because for every watt of hydrogen produced you are also producing heat. It the second law of thermodynamics.

Imagine putting about 250-300 lb of AlGa in your car to go about 350 miles. Well at the end of the tank you would need to empty the tank of the spent material and then put new material in. The filling station would need to be able to collect your waste and then recycle it on site for the next customer. Think about how many cars fill up at your local gas station every day.

The other thing to think about is what will happen to the market price of aluminum if we were to switch to this method. I think it would go the way of corn for use in making ethanol. So much aluminum would be diverted for making hydrogen that it would cause the price of other products made directly and indirectly from aluminum to increase, i.e. soda cans.

I can see potential for use in small fuel cell systems for laptops or personal generators and long as people aren't too worried about the weight. You would still need a recycling program much like the battery recycling program or a method for people to "recharge" their spent containers to make it useful. I don't think people will want to run out to Best Buy to get another fuel cartridge for their laptop after 12 hours of run time, and the cartridges would have to be fully uniform across all computer platforms.

I'm not trying to be a downer her but there is so much hype going on about fuel cells and hydrogen that it is hard to know what to believe. If you just read press releases then one would think that all the problems have been solved, but we still don't have a hydrogen economy so something must be going on. One part of my job is presenting the actual facts and current shortcomings of some of these technologies. While the promise is there, there is still a lot of work to be done. I think the more we can educate people on these topics the further along we will be. Ok time to hop off the soap box

[Inferno07]

Hybrid technology is no answer to being "green" and to be honest, there is NO problem. We humans really think we know what's going on... We (as a whole) have NO CLUE about our impact on the planet. Simple fact of the matter is that our days are numbered, they were numbered since day 1. When we are gone, the planet will go on.. The only catastrophic even that would cause a dead planet would be the sun going supernova and of course, that too, is GOING to happen (not if, but when...).

Green people can kiss my ass.. There is a pudwhacker at work with a prius and he gets out of it in the morning and walks all around it and looks it over like it's something worth owning. One of these days I am going to walk over and flip the thing over on it's side for him...

And if we want to reduce our fossile footprint (and not to "save the planet" but rather for a real legitimate reason like saving money) then we need to utilize true Diesel/Electric motive power, not some sissified hybrid using exotic LiIon batteries that do more harm than good. It's real simple.. You get yourself a big old 3/4 ton diesel pick up with a blown diesel engine, or better yet, take out the diesel and sell it.

Then pick up a Grainger catalog and order yourself a 40HP capacitized start motor (+400% start up torque) selaed, brushless 3 phase AC. Bolt that motor to the transmission, install a 50HP 3 cylinder Yanmar diesel that runs at 1500 RPM continious, turning a three phase AC generator which feeds an AC Line Driver to control the speed of the motor.

And there ya have it... A real hybrid.. And real MPG savings... Who wants to take bets it would get 300MPG.. Remember, the diesel operates at a fixed, low RPM all the time..

Ok I'm done.

[marlinspike]

Originally Posted by Cibalo

It would take a lot of AlGa to produce hydrogen in any useful quantity.

Well then how about my other idea: giant solar farms, which use the solar energy to extract hydrogen from water. That way, it doesn't matter that you're wasting energy.

[Cibalo]

Thats a much more feasible solution. The next problem is then transporting and storing the hydrogen. It is very energy intensive to store it as a liquid and the next best option is 10000 psi tanks. The problem is that you would need a lot of tanks to store enough hydrogen at a refilling station to handle the demand if we all switch over.

It really is a difficult problem to solve with no real solution out there right now. If you can figure it out you'll be rich.

[marlinspike]

Hmmm, so no way to pipeline it? I guess by its very obvious nature it's hydroscopic.

[Cibalo]

You can always pipeline it but we really don't have that infrastructure set up. We are a liquid fuel economy. Everything comes over on a boat and hits the road on a truck. We do have gas lines in the city and you could run lines next to them but we can't use the current lines. It's a major cost to set that up and that will be reflected in the cost of the hydrogen or though increased taxes.