5.7 Liter STOCK wheel HP, ESP, ansd SAE 340HP number

[Midnightsun300c]

TheCar...It is somewhat ironic that you say the statistics are subjective as I was trying to do just the opposite. I deliberately framed the discussion from the perspective of statistics so no one would take what I was saying personally. I have noticed a tendency of some people taking their dyno hp as a matter of personal worth rather than just a best guess that has many potential inaccuracies. I am unclear at this point whether you own your 300 yet but regardless be confident that it is a well made car that puts out a lot of horsepower and you will love it regardless if you're making 280 rwhp or 300 rwhp.

glhs837...You are absolutely right. Both cpl and moddog simple dyno'd their car and reported the results. For that matter the operator of the dyno that day could have done everything right and the variance could be in the dyno itself.

JMone...Can't wait for those new numbers once you've redone your fueling. In the mean time I guess we will just have to be happy with the same old boring 500 rwhp!

EricG...The great thing about statistics is that you can use any data set of any magnitude and the statistics will always be right. But more to your point, to be meaningful in its own right a sampling of the published data on this forum is not a complete data set. My intent in even bringing up the standard deviation is to impress the point that freaks both lowly and lofty will come about every once in a while as predicted by statistical analysis. However there is a limit to what is predictable and there is a point where one must consider error as a explanation of extreme statistical anomalies. I also completely agree that 280 rwhp is a great number. A 17% drivetrain loss on an automatic is very respectable considering the rule of thumb is 20%.

I would encourage anyone with a dyno slip to consider the likelihood of its inaccuracies and to understand that a dyno is a tremendous piece of tuning equipment that saves tuners a lot of time and a lot of guess work but is not an absolute measurement of true horsepower. And further isn't horsepower just a means to an end, something that we use to predict how fast we can go or how much we can pull. We will beat and get beat by the same cars regardless of what our dyno slips show. Unless of course you plan on rolling your dyno slip up tightly and beating the other driver into submission with it.

P.S. I guess I should read more carefully, you do own your 300. Congratulations and welcome to the forum.

[SRT8/BMW]

well said Bruce.

I never dyno'd mine stock, but with CAI, S/C flashpaq and Corsa cat back, it dyno'd at 308 rwhp, 340 rwtq.

[TheCar]

Originally Posted by Midnightsun300c

TheCar...It is somewhat ironic that you say the statistics are subjective as I was trying to do just the opposite. I deliberately framed the discussion from the perspective of statistics so no one would take what I was saying personally. I have noticed a tendency of some people taking their dyno hp as a matter of personal worth rather than just a best guess that has many potential inaccuracies. I am unclear at this point whether you own your 300 yet but regardless be confident that it is a well made car that puts out a lot of horsepower and you will love it regardless if you're making 280 rwhp or 300 rwhp.

P.S. I guess I should read more carefully, you do own your 300. Congratulations and welcome to the forum.

Thanks for the great info.

I think we got off on the wrong foot. My issue with standard deviation conclusions are this: Most are cited anecdotally (By anyone, not just yourself), so to cite a marked rarity in standard to a specific percentage without a definitive standard equates to a subjective conclusion.

I have no doubt you folks have a pretty darn good idea of what the standard RWHP is for 5.7L LX 300c's, however, from an anecdotal perspective only. No way would anyone here have enough time to verify every dyno run + conditions + mods, etc, etc, etc.

That's all I am saying.

[TheCar]

Originally Posted by EricG

Midnightsun is right about his statistics, but maybe wrong in assuming that dataset is statistically significant. We aren't referring to a statistically tested set of data where we can make all those assumptions about standard deviations are we?

Regardless, two 5.7's dyning 300+ rwhp lead me to believe too that it's just a higher-reading dyno. Unless you guys have the trap speeds to prove it.

I also don't know why one would think 270-280 rwhp is bad...a 20% driveline loss is pretty standard for an automatic.

Eric

20% driveline loss is a bit high even for auto IMO from working with other automatic vehicles in the past.

The 17% number, albeit not much difference, seems about right I am learning for these cars. It really does differ from car to car.

[Midnightsun300c]

Originally Posted by TheCar

Thanks for the great info.

I think we got off on the wrong foot. My issue with standard deviation conclusions are this: Most are cited anecdotally (By anyone, not just yourself), so to cite a marked rarity in standard to a specific percentage without a definitive standard equates to a subjective conclusion.

I have no doubt you folks have a pretty darn good idea of what the standard RWHP is for 5.7L LX 300c's, however, from an anecdotal perspective only. No way would anyone here have enough time to verify every dyno run + conditions + mods, etc, etc, etc.

That's all I am saying.

I like your style. You will fit in quite nicely here. And you are quite right, I have relied on the members published data for my analysis, nothing more. But that in itself constitutes a validation of the conclusion as all data is of equal quality and reliability (wait, doesn't that mean that the weight of my residuals are equal...sorry, couldn't help myself) for the purposes of conducting a statistical analysis. It is all anecdotal, and if some of the anecdotal data is 3 standard deviations from the anecdotal mean then the red flag goes up.

I hope you plan to go mod crazy with that car of yours as I think I will enjoy following your progress and observations. One last thing, the ESP from what I understand only applies brakes to the spinning wheel but does not cut power. The result is the same, for track applications it is the kiss of death.

[TheCar]

Originally Posted by Midnightsun300c

I like your style. You will fit in quite nicely here. And you are quite right, I have relied on the members published data for my analysis, nothing more. But that in itself constitutes a validation of the conclusion as all data is of equal quality and reliability (wait, doesn't that mean that the weight of my residuals are equal...sorry, couldn't help myself) for the purposes of conducting a statistical analysis. It is all anecdotal, and if some of the anecdotal data is 3 standard deviations from the anecdotal mean then the red flag goes up.

I hope you plan to go mod crazy with that car of yours as I think I will enjoy following your progress and observations. One last thing, the ESP from what I understand only applies brakes to the spinning wheel but does not cut power. The result is the same, for track applications it is the kiss of death.

Thanks for the awesome info and nice comments. Yeah I like the group here already. It's nice to see intelligent car buffs (At least some ;-). I raced Mitsu Eclipse GSX (AWD) and Eagle Talon TSi AWD turbo cars for about 10 years. INCREDIBLE CARS, however, my taste for pure power and speed has matured into refinement (Having a family certainly didn't hurt my maturation either ;-).

I wanna learn all I can and will be asking you tons of questions.

Thanks a bunch

[Midnightsun300c]

Originally Posted by TheCar

Thanks for the awesome info and nice comments. Yeah I like the group here already. It's nice to see intelligent car buffs (At least some ;-). I raced Mitsu Eclipse GSX (AWD) and Eagle Talon TSi AWD turbo cars for about 10 years. INCREDIBLE CARS, however, my taste for pure power and speed has matured into refinement (Having a family certainly didn't hurt my maturation either ;-).

I wanna learn all I can and will be asking you tons of questions.

Thanks a bunch

[CplDaugherty]

Well I thought +25 rwhp should be about what I should have goten out of a CAI and cat back (esp as free flowing as the SLP is)... I just figured moddog had a factory freak.

There was another supercharged SRT that put up 560ish if that helps any.

[EricG]

Midnightsun, I guess I thought when you stated that moddog was three standard deviations from the mean that you did some calculations of some sort...totally agree with the rest of what you are saying about the statistical concepts and dynos. Comparing dyno sheets is just like comparing 1/4 mile timp slips, unless you were there on the same day - same dyno - same machine, they are not equal.

By the way, what are you turning with your mods and the AWD setup? You must have a monster on your hands!

Eric

[stevesrt8]

Originally Posted by Midnightsun300c

One last thing, the ESP from what I understand only applies brakes to the spinning wheel but does not cut power. The result is the same, for track applications it is the kiss of death.

two small clarifications. First, ESP is an integrated system of yaw control, two types of traction control, and antilock braking. What makes it special is the total integration of these functions. Traction control A is reducing power when a certain amount of wheelspin is detected. Traction control B is biasing torque to attempt to equalize wheel speed by selective partial brake application. The ESP disable as provided by the factory cannot completely kill "mamma", only reduce her level of intervention. It basically kills traction control A and reduces other parameters.

Second, to my knowledge, no one on any board has ever shown that traction control B slows down ET's. I am certain no one will. Quaiffe only helps driveability issues and breaks halfshafts, no faster ET's.

Imagine this scenario: driver sets up in vacant roadway for launching practice. He disables ESP by pressing his dash button. He then locks it in low and hits the gas! The rears break loose and the tach roars to the limiter (old style trans programming). While bouncing off the limiter, the car begins to yaw right, and the ESP system is lightly buzzing the left front brake to straighten the car while equalizing the rear wheelspeed. It will reduce power only if the yaw is not corrected within limits.

That was fun! Lets all go practice!

Esp is also a wonderful learning tool. Practice driving your car smoothly right up to it's lowest level of intervention on a road course and you can get faster!