300C 5.7 Hemi Misfire #4 - Mechanics Stumped! - Chrysler 300C Forum: 300C & SRT8 Forums
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-01-2009, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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300C 5.7 Hemi Misfire #4 - Mechanics Stumped!

I have a 2006 5.7 Hemi 300C AWD - #4 cylinder started to misfire at idle. Problem just happened without cause on a Sunday morning. Dealership mechanics have exchanged coils, PCM, etc. problem stays with #4 and is sporadic (sometimes cold idle, sometimes hot). Happened after a new fill of 90 octane gas from Shell (always use this station, never any previous problems). Car is in perfect shape, with only the dealer ever touching it at every req. maintenance schedule. Today they are pulling the head to check for valve issues. SMART troubleshooting trees and TSB's are no help so far. Anyone else with a solution?
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-01-2009, 10:10 PM
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How long have you had the car? any mods?

MY BRICK CAN FLY, SO WHAT?

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MODS..AFE II, DIABLO PREDATOR & SRT EXHAUST.(INSTALLED)
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 04:04 AM
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scary

that's a scary code for a car with two plugs in every cylinder!

I hate to say it, but every one I've seen with a consistent misfire code had piston damage.

Maybe it's something in the valvetrain, like a broken rocker or a bent pushrod.

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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Car Details

I have owned the car as a new purchase and will cross the 3yr mark in one month. It has just passed 50K miles and is used mostly for light freeway and city driving. No mods at all, not even wheels. It is pure stock AWD and has never had a problem. Every 3K miles, oil, all maintenance by the book at the same dealership.

The dealership is totally stumped by it. They have had the car for 8 days now and have been through every TSB and on the phone with SMART. Their factory decision trees started with carbon buildup stopping the valve(s) from rotating and seating. The issue is that it only happens once and a while, never at acceleration or cruise. Only at idle. And, hot or cold. No pattern.

There were Zero symptoms up to the morning that it just start to shake at idle. At first no check engine light. Then after they ran the carbon cleaners for 2 days the CE light came on with a #4 misfire code.

Next step was to check all coils and wires, swapped parts with other cylinders, problem stayed with #4.

Next step was the PCM, which they said was telling the #4 to inject fuel on a constant rate, and not timed. New PCM - same issue.

Yesterday they pulled the head and are inspecting it at a machine shop. I am almost 100% to get a call today that said nothing found. These heads are supposed to be super temp resistant and there is almost no history online of damaged heads, valves or cylinders under STOCK usage.

I expect a remedy will be something totally unrelated to the head or valves, but in the fuel chain - like a vapor lock.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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Steve, it is not a consistent misfire. No symptoms at accerlation or cruise...only at idle
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 10:44 AM
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well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ORfisherman020364 View Post
The dealership is totally stumped by it. They have had the car for 8 days now and have been through every TSB and on the phone with SMART. Their factory decision trees started with carbon buildup stopping the valve(s) from rotating and seating. The issue is that it only happens once and a while, never at acceleration or cruise. Only at idle. And, hot or cold. No pattern.
There were Zero symptoms up to the morning that it just start to shake at idle. At first no check engine light. Then after they ran the carbon cleaners for 2 days the CE light came on with a #4 misfire code.
Next step was to check all coils and wires, swapped parts with other cylinders, problem stayed with #4.
Next step was the PCM, which they said was telling the #4 to inject fuel on a constant rate, and not timed. New PCM - same issue.
Yesterday they pulled the head and are inspecting it at a machine shop. I am almost 100% to get a call today that said nothing found. These heads are supposed to be super temp resistant and there is almost no history online of damaged heads, valves or cylinders under STOCK usage.
I expect a remedy will be something totally unrelated to the head or valves, but in the fuel chain - like a vapor lock.
If they pulled the head you should know for sure if the piston is damaged. Usually our super thin land pistons split off a chunk down to the top ring. It then bangs around and will leave tons of evidence of its departure! But I agree it is rarely a problem on a stock engine.

And it definitely won't be a single cylinder vapor lock, that is not possible. All the cylinders are fed fuel at a constant rate through a common fuel rail. Have they swapped the injector itself out?

This is really freaky.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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I will ask about the injector swap - but yes I think that they have done that. Major freaky! I found only one other case liek it in all of the 300C forums - the guy had the same symptoms but on a 2005 300C and with #3 cylinder. His was fixed after following the same decision tree as my guys have (including pulling the head and finding zippo), only to find that it was the EVAP. Here is the detail from that post:

"Actually it's the EVAP system Vapor canister that needs to be replaced: part number: 4891645AA

Basically what is happening is your fuel system is getting vapor locked. At some point the cars gas tank was topped off to the point where the vapor canister got filled with fuel, since it is designed for gas vapors and not actual liquid fuel, everytime you fill the tank, the vapors have no place to go, thereby vapor locking the fuel pump..

Tell your dealer to look at the vapor canister above the passenger rear wheel.

I would bet real money that it is full of gas, and needs to be replaced..

This is a consistent and known problem on the 2005 cars. Somewhere mid 2006 the vapor system was changed to prevent this issue."
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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Today the head was cleared no dmaage, no bad valves. Next guess - lifters
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-13-2009, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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The dealer finally fixed it. But it wasn't easy. They had the car for 10 days until they finally replaced the following for the #4 cylinder:

pn
53021550AA Valve
53021551AB Valve
53021580AE (2) Springs
5135357AG Gasket Kit - Upper Engine
53032152AD Solenoid-Multiple Dispalcement
53021726BB Tappet - Hydraulic

oil, coolant, cleaners, etc....

Parts and labor = $1280

More details from tech: Here is some more detial from the work order: The actual tech doign the work wrote:

"Verified concern: found code P0304. Found Cy#4 misfire. I have already checked Comp, plugs, coil, and injector. Checked to make sure coil and injector were receciving signal. Was OK. Pulled intake manifold off, found fuel puddling on the back of the intake valve #4. Reinstalled manifold, removed injector, watched injector pulse while cranking, it appeared to have more pulse than injector #2, swapepd injectors, NO CHANGE, Called STAR, STAR advised to replace PCM, repalced and reprogrammed PCM, STILL MISFIRES, removed cyl head to inspect valves, had head sent out to measure guide wear, check valves and seats, ALL OK. Replaced both intake and exhaust valves, springs and stem seals, STILL MISFIRES. Called STAR again. They reccomend to replace MDS Soleniod and Lifters, removed soleniod and lifters to inspect, NO PROBLEMS FOUND, replaced lifters and soleniod. Per customer (info I found in this forum) inspected overfill charcoal can, NO PROBELMS FOUND, reinstalled head and all drive OK. No more misfires."

Last edited by ORfisherman020364; 11-13-2009 at 04:35 PM. Reason: more detials from tech
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-13-2009, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORfisherman020364 View Post
I will ask about the injector swap - but yes I think that they have done that. Major freaky! I found only one other case liek it in all of the 300C forums - the guy had the same symptoms but on a 2005 300C and with #3 cylinder. His was fixed after following the same decision tree as my guys have (including pulling the head and finding zippo), only to find that it was the EVAP. Here is the detail from that post:

"Actually it's the EVAP system Vapor canister that needs to be replaced: part number: 4891645AA

Basically what is happening is your fuel system is getting vapor locked. At some point the cars gas tank was topped off to the point where the vapor canister got filled with fuel, since it is designed for gas vapors and not actual liquid fuel, everytime you fill the tank, the vapors have no place to go, thereby vapor locking the fuel pump..

Tell your dealer to look at the vapor canister above the passenger rear wheel.

I would bet real money that it is full of gas, and needs to be replaced..

This is a consistent and known problem on the 2005 cars. Somewhere mid 2006 the vapor system was changed to prevent this issue."

that there looks like my post..
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