First oil change?

[Konvict]

I work on the waterfront in Australia...drive off every type of new vehicle that comes into the country....80% of the vehicles have no more than 2 litres of running in oil in them..and all of these vehicles smoke like crazy until oil is replaced. The pre-delivery yards across the road flush the oil before they get delivered. Its a bit like running in an engine...everyone does things their own way..., however as the SRT8 is my first new car and the factory specifies that you should leave the 1st oil change to a certain milage...there's prob a good reason for it and I'll take their word for it. Each to their own i guess...people generally do what's worked for them in the past.

[sjz]

Originally Posted by stevesrt8

Originally Posted by stevesrt8
Old Wives Tale. Modern machining processes do NOT leave edges to be worn off. What is your oil filter for?
You really don't believe that, do you?
Page 56 of your manual states that:
"A new engine may consume some oil during its first few thousand miles of operation. This should be considered as a normal part of the break-in and not interpreted as an indication of difficulty."
So what do you think break-in is? It's the result of friction between moving parts, which wears down the high EDGES. This results in metal particles in your oil. The oil filter is there to catch these particles.
If there are no edges, what does this "break-in additive" that you claim is in the oil do?

Modern Moly/Blended additives (not even available 50 years ago) are recommended by Valvetrain experts such as Crane, etc. Yes, I had lunch with actual DCX employees including the Chief SRT Engineer! The owners manual does mention exactly when to change your oil!

The additives you speak of (i.e. GM's E.O.S.) are used to supply supplemental amounts of zinc and phosphorus during break-in. This is needed for flat tappet camshafts (NOT the case with our engines) due to the fact that most oil companies have cut back drastically on the amount of these elements for environmental reasons.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...struction.html

No where does the owner's manual state that you should not change your oil early, merely that you should not leave it in too long. It states 3000 miles, or 3 months.
On page 249, the manual reads: " The manufacturer strongly recommends against the addition of any additives ... to the engine oil. Engine oil is an engineered product and it's performance may be impaired by supplemental additives."

I have performed oil analysis on an entire fleet of vehicles. We run a service business and we don't guess, we analyze. If you did you would see that the oil change interval you describe was invented by oil manufacturers!!!


For your application it makes perfect sense to do analysis on the oil, since prolonging the oil change interval on a large fleet saves lots of $$$. I'm willing to bet that your fleet vehicles log many hours per day, and get the oil quite hot. This will tend to boil off moisture in the oil, and make for longer intervals, as stated in my previous post. I don't see how running analysis on your oil proves that "the oil change interval you describe was invented by oil manufacturers"? Don't forget, all vehicles are not operated as your fleet is. Everything is a compromise.

I maintain 5 personal vehicles plus my work vans. I am a former NIASE certified mechanic with a brother who runs a machine shop. We have built many of HI-PO engines. We have one van with over 300 thousand miles on the original drivetrain. No failures, no oil consumption, runs every day and makes money.
And my brothers a surgeon... would you want me to remove your gallbladder?
But seriously:
Your van with 300K that runs everyday is further testament to what I'm saying. Get the oil hot, keeps the moisture out, leave the oil in a bit longer.


The trick would be to get a sample of the used oil and analyze it. Otherwise you're just guessing. I like FACTS!The trick would be to get a sample of the used oil and analyze it. Otherwise you're just guessing. I like FACTS!
I'm curious... have you ever analyzed the oil after the very first change? If so, you are telling me that there were NO metal particles in the oil? I would find that hard to believe!

Please don't take offense at anything I posted. It is all in the spirit of good hearted & healthy debate!

[sjz]

Originally Posted by Konvict

... the factory specifies that you should leave the 1st oil change to a certain milage...

Where does it say this? I've looked, but I can't find it. Please tell me what page.
I think it's like the old Saturday Night Live routine:
"You can't put too much water in the reactor". In this case, "You can't change your oil too soon"!
-Steve

[stevesrt8]

Originally Posted by sjz

Please don't take offense at anything I posted. It is all in the spirit of good hearted & healthy debate!

No offense here! We enjoy the spirited discussion.

There are always trace amounts of various metals present in used engine oil. It's the quantities that matter, and specifically which one. The various oil analysis websites can give you the details. I don't have the time to type it all. But I can tell you that Jiffy Lube invented the infamous 3000 mile oil change interval and it is not needed for most cars and modern oils. Many so-called Consumer rags have done the studies. Why not perform an inexpensive analysis on one of your autos after 3000 miles? That would be interesting for sure.

Re: additives, I can't tell you what they use in the 6.1. But I'm sure it's not moly!

If you truly have seen the inside of any carefully built modern engine when new (I have) you will note the absolutely near-perfect machining of all the wear surfaces. The accuracy of these processes has been improved dramatically over the last 20 years or so with amazingly sophisticated equipment. The so called "break in" period is no longer needed for any of these parts except piston rings. That is the only part you are seating in your new car. You are not removing any material at all. That is a fact. If you are then you will soon need expensive repairs!!! When I personally built the two big block Chevys for my boat under my brother-in-law's watchful eyes, we ran them on a stand for 10 minutes to make sure they were well, then proceeded to wail them in the boat at 7700 RPM!

Finally, I tend to go with sources that are well informed. When the SRTTE was held, this was an early one with only 19 people. I had lunch with Terry Earwood, too! We got to ask a lot of questions and get a few good answers. They may not agree with your opinions, but it was very informative.

[sjz]

Originally Posted by stevesrt8

No offense here! We enjoy the spirited discussion.

There are always trace amounts of various metals present in used engine oil. It's the quantities that matter, and specifically which one. The various oil analysis websites can give you the details. I don't have the time to type it all. But I can tell you that Jiffy Lube invented the infamous 3000 mile oil change interval and it is not needed for most cars and modern oils. Many so-called Consumer rags have done the studies. Why not perform an inexpensive analysis on one of your autos after 3000 miles? That would be interesting for sure.

Re: additives, I can't tell you what they use in the 6.1. But I'm sure it's not moly!

If you truly have seen the inside of any carefully built modern engine when new (I have) you will note the absolutely near-perfect machining of all the wear surfaces. The accuracy of these processes has been improved dramatically over the last 20 years or so with amazingly sophisticated equipment. The so called "break in" period is no longer needed for any of these parts except piston rings. That is the only part you are seating in your new car. You are not removing any material at all. That is a fact. If you are then you will soon need expensive repairs!!! When I personally built the two big block Chevys for my boat under my brother-in-law's watchful eyes, we ran them on a stand for 10 minutes to make sure they were well, then proceeded to wail them in the boat at 7700 RPM!

Finally, I tend to go with sources that are well informed. When the SRTTE was held, this was an early one with only 19 people. I had lunch with Terry Earwood, too! We got to ask a lot of questions and get a few good answers. They may not agree with your opinions, but it was very informative.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree!
Seating = wear = removal of materials. I, too have rebuilt many engines in my day both while working in an auto machine shop, and on my own. In fact, I just rebuilt the 345 engine in my '67 International.
I think it's cheap insurance to change your oil early & often. Look at the remnants in "II kings 9:20" oil, and that's a modern engine. If you're depending on the oil filter to catch all this stuff, forget it! Remember, our filters have bypass valves in them, so only a small percentage of oil actually gets filtered... even less as the filter get older.
Terry Earwood (about whom I know very little) is the chief instructor for Skip Barber, and is probably the guy to go to for performance driving answers, et cetera. Correct me if I'm wrong, but why would he be aware of what or if any break-in oil is used in the SRT8? People on this board have gotten all kinds of conflicting info from SRTTE folk. One topic that comes to mind is what they do with the SRTTE vehicles. Some say the are auctioned off, some say donated to schools, some (like the SRTTE people I asked) say they get destroyed. Some folks just have a hard time saying "I don't know", which is how misinformation can become gospel. Sometimes "sources that are well informed" aren't as well informed as we think.
For these reasons, I will continue doing what works for me, and you will do what works for you, and I wish us both the best of luck!
-Steve

[NasaRacer]

I wonder how the new "Oil Life Indicator" System is going to work on the 2007s. Is this its first use in a DCX vehicle?? I know GM has been using a system for several years on the Corvette.

My plan for my 2007 Magnum SRT8 was to do a first change around 1k miles. Reset the system and change my oil as the computer sees fit.

[JWunderli]

I concur with SteveSRT8 - my dealer told me specifically not to change the oil until 3,000 miles because of the special break-in additive that, if removed, my not allow my engine to break in the way it should.

Also, they said I must change the oil every 3,000 miles or my warranty may not be honored. This was a bit disconcerting because I was used to driving my BMW where the scheduled change interval is 12,000 (four times longer than Chrysler's for those of you who don't like to do math on the weekends). Considering the SRT8 comes from the factory with Mobile 1 it seems really silly to change the oil every 3,000. I would think somewhere between 5K and 12K. I think they just want the extra revenue. You pay for it one way or another...I paid about the same for my 330i ZHP as I did for the SRT8 but the BMW included all schedule maintenance for four years and it even included wear items such as brakes: I recently had my front rotors and all of my pads replaced and it didn't cost me a dime; in fact they told me to go out, drive hard and have some more fun!!

Jed