Brake Issue

[cbutler32]

Has anyone thought of e-mailing the men themselves...
Ralph Gilles and Dan Knott of the rotor problem...???
Since they peruse through here occasionally...
maybe they already know...
And has anyone received any responses from their dealer visits on this issue?

[Rambit]

Originally Posted by cbutler32

Has anyone thought of e-mailing the men themselves...
Ralph Gilles and Dan Knott of the rotor problem...???
Since they peruse through here occasionally...
maybe they already know...
And has anyone received any responses from their dealer visits on this issue?

I pasted all the pertinent information in the thread started by jMatt into a Word document and gave it, including the pictures, to my service manager. He seemed puzzled by it and had never heard of bedding the brakes. I'm due for my first oil change next week and will have it officially documented at that time.

Rambit

[JMatt]

I took mine into the service manager.

"Oh - I thought they'd be worse than that"
"They're performance brakes - they all wear bad"
"That's not that out of line for 3,000 miles"

I showed him a used Chrysler with 40,000 miles and rotors that were smooth:

"We don't know - maybe those rotors were just replaced."

Suffice it to say, his credibility with me is already shot.

[DZeckhausen]

Originally Posted by JMatt

I took mine into the service manager.

"Oh - I thought they'd be worse than that"
"They're performance brakes - they all wear bad"
"That's not that out of line for 3,000 miles"

I showed him a used Chrysler with 40,000 miles and rotors that were smooth:

"We don't know - maybe those rotors were just replaced."

Suffice it to say, his credibility with me is already shot.

That's just the tip of the iceberg with respect to the crazy things my customers have been told by their service managers about brakes. It's not unique to Chrylser service managers. Since you also have a BMW 540i, I thought you might enjoy this one:

BMW rotors tend to be replaced by dealers with each pad change. When former Mercedes owners, used to getting two pad replacements before rotors are swapped, complain about the rapid BMW rotor wear, they are told the following: "BMW rotors are made of a special soft iron that wears at the same rate as the stock pads. It's a high performance feature." In fact, BMW rotors are made of the exact same iron as Mercedes rotors. There is no such thing as "soft" iron. BMW has a design philosophy that emphasizes performance, while Mercedes is more conservative and tends to emphasize extended service intervals. A 30mm thick BMW rotor will have a larger air gap, making the rotor lighter and allowing more cooling air to flow through it. A Mercedes 30mm thick rotor will have thicker friction plates and a smaller air gap. It weighs more and doesn't cool as efficiently, but the thicker plates allow for a longer life. In fact, Mercedes allows up to 2.4mm of overall rotor wear. BMW only allows 1.6mm. There's your 50% difference. No magic rotor formulas of "soft" iron! Both rotors have the same external dimensions, but they perform differently due to their physical design.

Here's another one: "Of course your brakes squeak. This is a performance car with performance parts. You should expect the brakes to be noisy."

That sort of behavior drives me nuts. When I don't know something, I tell my customer I don't know. Service advisors, in general, tend to behave like car salesmen (or some physicians) and try to maintain that they are all-knowing beings. Partly it's a defense mechanism to avoid being questioned in depth about a problem and/or to avoid responsibility if the problem can't be properly diagnosed or resolved. "I don't know" isn't in their vocabulary.

[II kings 9:20]

Dave, thanks for educating us on these issues. I can't stand foolishness and your above quotes in blue is why many of us consider many mechanics/SMs idiots. There medical term "idiopathic", pathic from pathology "something is wrong" and idio from idiot "we don't know why". I am going to bed the brakes in the next few days, the SS lines are great.

[jketron]

Come from a former mechanic, the brake guys just didn't spend the time to do the job completely. They slap on pads, cut the rotors and send them out the door. I know so many guys that will not even seat the pads. They just pump the pedal and ship it.

My brakes on my SRT8 howl like no tomorrow, and at high speed with very light pedal pressure they vibrate. NICE!!!!!