SRT8 CAI HP Gains - Fact or Fiction?

[Rambit]

After the latest SRT Engineers Chat Session, I'm left with some doubt if any of the CAI's really do as they claim.

Basically what they're saying, in answer to ResumeSpeed's question, is that many of these are not really CAI's at all as they suck hot air in from behind the radiator along with dirt.

They also say the stock SRT8 airbox is better in that the pressure drop is the lowest at WOT they've ever tested. Add to that, they say 22 RWHP gains are not realistic.

Comments???

Dodge Charger Forums - View Single Post - Srt Q & A Session: 01-17-07

Rambit

[HotRodK]

Im going to agre 100% with them. I was going to the track every week when I put the K&N CAI on the Magnum, and I didnt see ANY improvement over the stock setup. Dyno numbers are nice, but if those extra horsepower dont show up on my timeslip, Im not interested.

[Hemi6.1]

When asked about the mopar CAI, look what he said... He said it made a minor difference! What about the dirt and ****?

"Don't have any of the Mopar guys here to answer that one - sorry! Wish we could post a power curve since we like to use data to backup claims. We did run their CAI on the 300C 1-Lap project a while ago and it seemed to make a minor difference. We do extensive testing in Las Vegas, death valley and city traffic to verify performance on the stock parts."

[ResumeSpeed]

Originally Posted by Rambit

After the latest SRT Engineers Chat Session, I'm left with some doubt if any of the CAI's really do as they claim.

Basically what they're saying, in answer to ResumeSpeed's question, is that many of these are not really CAI's at all as they suck hot air in from behind the radiator along with dirt.

They also say the stock SRT8 airbox is better in that the pressure drop is the lowest at WOT they've ever tested. Add to that, they say 22 RWHP gains are not realistic.

I have seen all sorts of claims of supposed power gains on the various forums. Extensive testing on the LXForums revealed that many of them provided minimal or no gains, and some even with losses in power. Most of the tests though were done on vehicles with the 5.7. But a recent post there prompted me to ask the question last night. It was a higher claim than I had seen before, 22 RWHP (!!!) and I just couldn't believe it.

This is the comment I posted over there a few days ago:

"The stock SRT8 intake design added about 6-8 hp vs the stock 5.7 intake system. So someone is claiming +22 rwhp by adding a CAI to the 6.1??? I say no way, not even close. Who came up with these results and which brand CAI? Links?"

And the responses:

"I was thinking the same thing..."

"Search is your friend."

"If I had the time I'd be happy to pull some threads, but there have been repeated before and after dynos to prove that this is fact. I don't just type this stuff to read my own words on the perty screen."

"and i cant believe this debate is still going on (about cai's)."

"ROFL..................exactly... It shows we are picking up people that haven't been here the "entire" time like a few of us."


Now as far as "Search" being my friend, well, all I can say is go ahead try to search under "CAI" and see how many thousands of posts come up. All I wanted to see what a list of a few owners along with their "proof" of the whopping gains. It was made to sound like 22 RWHP gain was extremely common.

You can show me all the dyno slips you want but I'll never be convinced of a 22 RWHP gain from a CAI. As is commonly known, many are of backyard design with absolutely NO engineering behind them, and many do indeed suck in hot engine air. As for sucking in dirt, a lot of filter tests I have seen show common aftermarket filters like K&N to let in MORE dirt and particles than stock filters.

There is just no way that the engineers would have left nearly 30 HP "on the table". Extensive design and testing was done for the stock intake. As it was they gained about 8 HP in the 6.1 design vs the 5.7 engine. Now can someone please tell me how something so simple as a different filter, especially when exposed to hot engine air (or cooler air that is no different than the stock setup), is going to gain an additional and amazing 22 RWHP gain??

Years of testing went into the design of the 6.1L, and not by rookies but people with extensive racing experience and knowledge. In many cases a particular design or component may not necessarily allow for the maximum HP, but instead may allow for the BEST result - which means NO drawbacks. Many mods may indeed produce some gains, although often exaggerated, but there always seems to be a negative of some sort. Again, I'm not saying that there is NOT any more power to be sucked out of the 6.1, only that so far no one seems to have come up with anything worthwhile in performance improvements without some sort of "negative".

Originally Posted by HotRodK

Dyno numbers are nice, but if those extra horsepower dont show up on my timeslip, Im not interested.

I've never been impressed with dyno claims, they mean nothing to me. Like you, the proof for me is in the track slips. And I don't mean one or two runs, more like dozens of them under varying conditions and then taking the average from the overall results.

I also don't get "anal" when going to the track by doing ridiculous things like removing the back seats, removing the wiper resevoir and some of the other miniscule "weight-saving" gimmicks that people come up with. I want my numbers to reflect numbers based on the vehicle as I drive it everyday, not stripped of every extra nut and bolt. To me that is "cheating" as once you are back on the street you are not running what you would at the track.

[stevesrt8]

HotRod, absolutely right! I totally agree with your comment. If you can't see a real quantifiable increase then save your money.

RS, I also agree with your statement about strip set up. I don't even like drag radials! I want to see what the car runs in street trim, just like you drive it everyday.

The other times generated by obsessive weight reduction and crazy traction are irrelevant to me.

[glhs837]

Originally Posted by ResumeSpeed

And I don't mean one or two runs, more like dozens of them under varying conditions and then taking the average from the overall results.

I also don't get "anal" when going to the track by doing ridiculous things like removing the back seats, removing the wiper resevoir and some of the other miniscule "weight-saving" gimmicks that people come up with. I want my numbers to reflect numbers based on the vehicle as I drive it everyday, not stripped of every extra nut and bolt. To me that is "cheating" as once you are back on the street you are not running what you would at the track.

Holy crap, were you an orphan, we might be twins

[Dan SS2471]

Originally Posted by glhs837

Holy crap, were you an orphan, we might be twins

I second that.

When I was at Atco (1st and only time I've run, unfortunately) last August, a kid comes up to me who obviously had some knowledge of the SRT-8 and asks, "Why so slow?" (My first run, I ran a 13.5 @ 105). Me, "Well, because I just came off of a 70+ mile trip to get here. It's about 90 degrees. I didn't ice the intake. And, it was my first trip down the 1/4 with this car." Him, "You should pull fuse xx and go get some ice, get the GSM esp mod...etc." Me, "The GSM mod is one thing, but I'm more than likely not going to ask the guy next to me at a red light if he can give me a few minutes to ice down and pull a fuse." He just walked away baffled.

A couple of friends of mine were the same way when we all drove Lightnings. They would be in the pits swapping out there rims and throwing on slicks, unbolting/removing the passenger seats, removing the tow hitch, etc. And then chaining it all to a fence only to hope that it doesn't get stolen while we were in the lanes. I preferred to just pull in, put in some 104, flip the switch on my Superchip and go make some passes. I didn't always have as good an ET as them, but I also didn't have to put my truck back together in the dark before I could leave to go home.

[Humongo]

Gain or no gain, I absolutely love the way it sounds over the stock airbox.

[moddog]

I had the Air Raid it sound OK then I took it out. Put a K&N drop in and made my own CAI. It suck air in next to the fog light nothing hot from under the hood. Sounds good and I can fell a little more pep on cold days. And it only cost about $50 for a ram air system thats not bad.

[Rambit]

Originally Posted by Hemi6.1

When asked about the mopar CAI, look what he said... He said it made a minor difference! What about the dirt and ****?

"Don't have any of the Mopar guys here to answer that one - sorry! Wish we could post a power curve since we like to use data to backup claims. We did run their CAI on the 300C 1-Lap project a while ago and it seemed to make a minor difference. We do extensive testing in Las Vegas, death valley and city traffic to verify performance on the stock parts."

I've had CAI's in the past and I have to agree the sound is impressive, but I have to say as far as everything else is concerned, the performance gain increases and peddle response are pretty much unsupported, unscientific and subjective "butt dyno" generated claims.

It all boils down to if you think you are making sufficient HP gains to justify the expense, go for it. For me, if I were to put a "CAI" (misnomer) on, it would be purely for the sound and/or looks, nothing more.

Rambit