Afe Stage 2 Intake

[Trident1]

Mine still stock after a year and a half (tinted windows only). I've been close several times on exhaust and CAI mods, but gosh, it seems to be more looks and sound than a real HP issue based on all these write-ups. That being said, I like the idea of more outsiders hearing my 6.1 as often as I'm on it - CAI seems to be most cost effective, sooo - AFE for 275 or the Rev for a couple hundred bones more (and better looking!) - jury still out, but one or the other soon! Both seem good products.

[DaveW68]

After checking the mods face-off, it appears that the AFE Stage 2 performs exactly the same as the Air Hammer on the SRT-8 as far as how much air it sucks into the engine and the power it produces. The Air Hammer appears to have a slight edge on the 5.7. The design also looks pretty much identical, except for the fact that you can get the Air Hammer in stainless and multiple finishes for lots more money if that's what you're into. It also appears the Air Hammer's tubing is more suseptible to heat soak than the AFE. Also, on the AFE Stage 2, the filter is sealed off from heat soak with a shroud whereas the Air Hammer isn't. I think the Air Hammer is louder because it howls in the stainless tubing and it doesn't have the shroud separating the filter from the engine compartment, thus allowing lots of noise to circulate in the engine compartment. I think I'll be spending my hard earned money on the AFE Stage 2 so I can afford more future mods.

[StngStr]

Originally Posted by DaveW68

After checking the mods face-off, it appears that the AFE Stage 2 performs exactly the same as the Air Hammer on the SRT-8 as far as how much air it sucks into the engine and the power it produces. The Air Hammer appears to have a slight edge on the 5.7. The design also looks pretty much identical, except for the fact that you can get the Air Hammer in stainless and multiple finishes for lots more money if that's what you're into. It also appears the Air Hammer's tubing is more suseptible to heat soak than the AFE. Also, on the AFE Stage 2, the filter is sealed off from heat soak with a shroud whereas the Air Hammer isn't. I think the Air Hammer is louder because it howls in the stainless tubing and it doesn't have the shroud separating the filter from the engine compartment, thus allowing lots of noise to circulate in the engine compartment. I think I'll be spending my hard earned money on the AFE Stage 2 so I can afford more future mods.

agreed

[MattRobertson]

Originally Posted by DaveW68

After checking the mods face-off, it appears that the AFE Stage 2 performs exactly the same as the Air Hammer on the SRT-8 as far as how much air it sucks into the engine and the power it produces.

Huh? MFO5 didn't test the AFE on an SRT.

Originally Posted by DaveW68

It also appears the Air Hammer's tubing is more suseptible to heat soak than the AFE.

There was a time when I said the same thing, although I was picking on the steel DUB intake at the time. I have always been partial to alloy as while it heats a little faster, it cools just as quickly. Plastic may heat more slowly, but it retains heat better than alloy or steel, and thats the part that worries me. Same thing keeps me from putting on one of those lace-up insulators on the tube. Once you finally get heat soak, and I figure its inevitable, you can't get rid of it.

Originally Posted by DaveW68

Also, on the AFE Stage 2, the filter is sealed off from heat soak with a shroud whereas the Air Hammer isn't.

Well, that makes plenty of sense on general terms but with an LX, it doesn't fly so well, although it seems crazy on the surface to say so. I did some fairly extensive underhood tests, with probes all over the place. You can see Round 6 here, which links to all of the others.

In short, with no heat shield, air at the filter is ambient, even when facing the engine at its closest point. The heat that you get in the elbow (which settles at around 6 degrees above ambient) is coming *after* the air has passed the filter. A heat shield can't help with heat acquired inside the elbow (which I figure is mostly radiating from the engine itself via the throttle body).

[DaveW68]

Huh? MFO5 didn't test the AFE on an SRT.

I got this from the Mods face off. Even though the AFE wasn't tested on the SRT-8, this data was provided:

Manometer readings:

Notice that the manometer ratings for the Airhammer and AFE 2 were identical. They both pull in the same amount of air. After all, this is one of the main purposes of a CAI, to pull more air into the engine.

There was a time when I said the same thing, although I was picking on the steel DUB intake at the time. I have always been partial to alloy as while it heats a little faster, it cools just as quickly. Plastic may heat more slowly, but it retains heat better than alloy or steel, and thats the part that worries me. Same thing keeps me from putting on one of those lace-up insulators on the tube. Once you finally get heat soak, and I figure its inevitable, you can't get rid of it.

That sounds good in theory, but I would have to question it in real life. If alloy does a better job keeping the air cooler, then why do all performance car makers use plastic instead? Even Carroll Shelby uses plastic intake tubes on the GT500. I'm sure he's not doing it for cost savings and I trust his opinion and work more so than even the good Rev Hammer or other so called experts on the subject. And Shelby's intake feeds the engine in the rear, meaning it is much more suseptible to heat than in our cars.

Well, that makes plenty of sense on general terms but with an LX, it doesn't fly so well, although it seems crazy on the surface to say so. I did some fairly extensive underhood tests, with probes all over the place. You can see Round 6 here, which links to all of the others.

In short, with no heat shield, air at the filter is ambient, even when facing the engine at its closest point. The heat that you get in the elbow (which settles at around 6 degrees above ambient) is coming *after* the air has passed the filter. A heat shield can't help with heat acquired inside the elbow (which I figure is mostly radiating from the engine itself via the throttle body).

Again, I'm going to have to go with the proven expert, Carroll Shelby on this one. Take a look at the intake on the GT500. It has a heat shield very similar to the one on the AFE.

I am of the opinion that it is MUCH better to have cooler air at the point of the filter where the air is coming in than the temperature of the tube. There is no doubt that the Hammer is pulling warmer air into his filter than the AFE 2 is. It may be only a miniscule about in the grand scheme, but it is warmer. Your other post earlier about removing the sound shields to let more air in is very good advice and something I probably wouldn't have thought of if it wasn't in the instructions.

[MattRobertson]

Originally Posted by DaveW68

I got this from the Mods face off. Even though the AFE wasn't tested on the SRT-8, this data was provided:

I know. I'm one of the guys that helps organize that event and my car has been one of the test vehicles for awhile as well, although I think its getting retired... since its approaching 100 dyno pulls its about time.

Originally Posted by DaveW68

Notice that the manometer ratings for the Airhammer and AFE 2 were identical.

Sorry. you're reading the chart wrong. Look at the column header. when there are split readings that meand the left reading is for the 5.7 and the right reading si for the 6.1. If there's only one reading, its only the 5.7 that was tested.

Originally Posted by DaveW68

Even Carroll Shelby uses plastic intake tubes

If there's one thing the LX platform has done to aftermarket manufacturers its serve up surprises. Without actually testing things we'd be taking a lot for granted that is incorrect on these cars, and a whole lot of hogwash would slide right by us all. I'll sling "it sounds good in theory" right back at you and add to it that nobody has any hard data on this. We are all speculating. All of us. Myself included. Except to say that in all the testing and playing around I have done I have yet to see anything to validate any side's argument. I'd be happy to see the results of a surface temp test both on the inside and outside of a tube (I did that on an alloy tube, actually, in my first air temp tests a couple years ago) as well as -- more importantly -- an air temp test that measures heat soak and how fast it dissipates on plastic vs. steel vs. alloy. I bet we all think we know the answer but really we are only guessing.

Originally Posted by DaveW68

Again, I'm going to have to go with the proven expert, Carroll Shelby on this one. Take a look at the intake on the GT500. It has a heat shield very similar to the one on the AFE.

We aren't driving GT500's.

You think you're alone in scratching your head on that one? I pretty much had the world lined up on the other side on the heat shield argument. But look over the dozens -- literally -- of temp samples. Run your own tests. See if mine were somehow inaccurate. You won't be the first.

There's no substitute for going out and doing it yourself and KNOWING what the answer is versus taking general knowlege and... generalizing it to your specific application. Specific testing yields specific results.

Originally Posted by DaveW68

I am of the opinion that it is MUCH better to have cooler air at the point of the filter where the air is coming in than the temperature of the tube.

Well, you and the rest of the world, myself included, agrees :-). Thats not the issue. The issue is you can get ambient air in that spot if you make a small mod to the vehicle. You don't have to go get it from ground level.

Originally Posted by DaveW68

There is no doubt that the Hammer is pulling warmer air into his filter than the AFE 2 is.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there and say there is no doubt that the air pulled into the filter is the same for the two, as it is for any short ram, filter-stuck-on-a-tube intake.

What has been tested shows that a filter at that location gets ambient air inside it, at pretty much all sides. That will be true for an AFE, an AirHammer, a Frankentake and any other short ram intake with the appropriate baffle mod. The air warms up after its already inside, and the warmth is most at the elbow. I think its radiating back out from the motor thru the throttle body and not from anything that any intake has any influence over... but I don't know for sure either as I haven't gotten that deep into testing such a thing.

Originally Posted by DaveW68

Your other post earlier about removing the sound shields to let more air in is very good advice and something I probably wouldn't have thought of if it wasn't in the instructions.

Are you saying that AFE is putting that part removal in their manual? Interesting if so. The first person to come up with it was Leo Now at Weapon-R, when he was prototyping their LX 5.7/6.1 intake. It was originally going to allow a scoop to feed air thru a hose to the silencer hole but I saw it worked so well on its own I never installed the scoop or hose.