Should i bag the srt8????

[Bigal470]

Originally Posted by customaudioman

my bad, I understand what you were saying. I read it wrong.lol! but the koni do give you more performance control if you track or every day street uses. The problem is that most people never had bags or had bad experience with a cheap bag kit and tries to knock everyone else kits. Or they want bags and now they will never be able to get them( $$) When your oem shocks get old, try out the koni's, they are around the same price as the bilsteins, but are adjustable. do you have 300c shocks in the rear or your bilstein shocks? to get it lower in the back, you can use oem 300c or koni's.

its all good! yeah ive heard about the Koni being good just not sold on going lower... im currently running just the 300c out back and bilsteins up front... was planning to get the rear bilsteins which are available on the 08 model years since they did away with the nevomats... I have eibach pro dampers front and rear on the mag with bags and cant stand it just to stiff for me.... maybe in the future i wil lput koni's on mine and the bilsteins on the mag..


reason for not going any lower

[viper3ez]

Originally Posted by Bigal470

its all good! yeah ive heard about the Koni being good just not sold on going lower... im currently running just the 300c out back and bilsteins up front... was planning to get the rear bilsteins which are available on the 08 model years since they did away with the nevomats... I have eibach pro dampers front and rear on the mag with bags and cant stand it just to stiff for me.... maybe in the future i wil lput koni's on mine and the bilsteins on the mag..


reason for not going any lower

Alex,

so you running eibach dampers with your bags and its stiff?

awesome. thats exactly what i am looking for. stiffness.

although i might lose my ability to lay flat. whats the heigh of the pro dampers compressed? any chance yoiu could take pictures of this setup where ever space allows? i'm interested. or if you cant stand the stiffness maybe we can work a deal.

Nuvie

[Bigal470]

Originally Posted by viper3ez

Alex,

so you running eibach dampers with your bags and its stiff?

awesome. thats exactly what i am looking for. stiffness.

although i might lose my ability to lay flat. whats the heigh of the pro dampers compressed? any chance yoiu could take pictures of this setup where ever space allows? i'm interested. or if you cant stand the stiffness maybe we can work a deal.

Nuvie

Yeah the difference between the mag and the 300 is crazy but then again the bilsteins are made for a nice plush yet sporty ride and the pro dampers are made to work along with the sportline springs for more of a race feel.... what are you running now? the pro dampers are shorter then stock so depending on your wheel and tire combo you should lay pretty flat

this is the mag it has 265/35/22 on a 9.5" up front could go lower with 30 series and it has a 295/30/22 on a 10" out back again with a 285/30 it would go way lower


here it is with SRT8 stocker 20's


I cant get pictures of the suspension right now its my Girlfriends Daily driver so its at her place will not see it till the weekend

[viper3ez]

Originally Posted by Bigal470

Yeah the difference between the mag and the 300 is crazy but then again the bilsteins are made for a nice plush yet sporty ride and the pro dampers are made to work along with the sportline springs for more of a race feel.... what are you running now? the pro dampers are shorter then stock so depending on your wheel and tire combo you should lay pretty flat

this is the mag it has 265/35/22 on a 9.5" up front could go lower with 30 series and it has a 295/30/22 on a 10" out back again with a 285/30 it would go way lower


here it is with SRT8 stocker 20's


I cant get pictures of the suspension right now its my Girlfriends Daily driver so its at her place will not see it till the weekend

awesome, i have stock wheels with the 300C struts in front and a monroe shock for a ($ chevy cavalier which is what came with my slam specialties kit for the rear. it compresses to 13inches so i actually sit on my axle slammed.

can you please let me know where you got the dampers? i checked eibach website and they only listed the complete eibach sport kit and not the pro dampers. i need to get this cos i have been searching for a stiff ride.

[Bigal470]

I got them at a local shop that is now closed but you should be able to get them from Sears or Tire rack

[Blowndakrt]

I was directed to this thread when someone had asked me about baggin their SRT8 and the thought that it would hinder his performance handling.

All I can say is WOW!!! I guess you don't have to know much about suspensions to be an expert.

My question is if the SRT8's are built from the facotry with such awesome handling capability, why do the serious track guys change out components to other than factory equipment?

I guess I would also like to know what people are basing their facts on?

Bag design plays a key role in how a bag handles. Also, and just as important is shock choice. The dampening and rebound of the shock will play a big role in how a car handles.

That is why you see alot of coil overs having adjustable dampening. Coilovers are not really designed for ride height adjustment, unless you are changing the mount heights to do the adjustment. If you adjust the spring height, you are actually compressing the spring, which will in turn tighten up your spring rate. The more you compress the spring, the more you stiffen up the ride as you give the coil less room to do its job.

Comparing a bagged truck suspension to an LX's it not even in the same ball park. Most bagged trucks run a double or even triple convoluted bag. This is because they want more lift and suspension travel, especially to tuck a larger wheel. They are also usally set up with bag plates or cups, they do not have shock running through them to help the bag stay centered when under deflection.

As far as the arguement goes for failures, this is partially true. Most bag failures are from improper use, wear, or bad installation techniques.

But when you are talking about anything mechanical, there is always a chance of failure. I have seen coil springs, leaf springs, tire rods, ball joints, etc all fail. Even a tire blow out at higher speeds is very dangerous and way more common than blowing a bag.

You can ask any racer, the key to a better performing suspension is about spring rate, dampening and rebound, lowering the center of gravity, and of course decreasing body roll. All of which can be obtained in an air bag suspension if the right parts are used to do the job.

So sorry to rant, but when I was directed to this thread, I felt that air suspensions were getting a bad rap from people that don't have first hand knowledge of how our cars handle on air suspensions.

Shawn

[customaudioman]

Originally Posted by Blowndakrt

I was directed to this thread when someone had asked me about baggin their SRT8 and the thought that it would hinder his performance handling.

All I can say is WOW!!! I guess you don't have to know much about suspensions to be an expert.

My question is if the SRT8's are built from the facotry with such awesome handling capability, why do the serious track guys change out components to other than factory equipment?

I guess I would also like to know what people are basing their facts on?

Bag design plays a key role in how a bag handles. Also, and just as important is shock choice. The dampening and rebound of the shock will play a big role in how a car handles.

That is why you see alot of coil overs having adjustable dampening. Coilovers are not really designed for ride height adjustment, unless you are changing the mount heights to do the adjustment. If you adjust the spring height, you are actually compressing the spring, which will in turn tighten up your spring rate. The more you compress the spring, the more you stiffen up the ride as you give the coil less room to do its job.

Comparing a bagged truck suspension to an LX's it not even in the same ball park. Most bagged trucks run a double or even triple convoluted bag. This is because they want more lift and suspension travel, especially to tuck a larger wheel. They are also usally set up with bag plates or cups, they do not have shock running through them to help the bag stay centered when under deflection.

As far as the arguement goes for failures, this is partially true. Most bag failures are from improper use, wear, or bad installation techniques.

But when you are talking about anything mechanical, there is always a chance of failure. I have seen coil springs, leaf springs, tire rods, ball joints, etc all fail. Even a tire blow out at higher speeds is very dangerous and way more common than blowing a bag.

You can ask any racer, the key to a better performing suspension is about spring rate, dampening and rebound, lowering the center of gravity, and of course decreasing body roll. All of which can be obtained in an air bag suspension if the right parts are used to do the job.

So sorry to rant, but when I was directed to this thread, I felt that air suspensions were getting a bad rap from people that don't have first hand knowledge of how our cars handle on air suspensions.

Shawn

thanks for your input, most people that down the bags are people who never had them or bad experience with a cheaper setup. Which they dont have facts to support why they effect performance on cars. they have to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.bagged truck and bagged car are totally different. thanks for your bag support.

[viper3ez]

Originally Posted by Blowndakrt

I was directed to this thread when someone had asked me about baggin their SRT8 and the thought that it would hinder his performance handling.

All I can say is WOW!!! I guess you don't have to know much about suspensions to be an expert.

My question is if the SRT8's are built from the facotry with such awesome handling capability, why do the serious track guys change out components to other than factory equipment?

I guess I would also like to know what people are basing their facts on?

Bag design plays a key role in how a bag handles. Also, and just as important is shock choice. The dampening and rebound of the shock will play a big role in how a car handles.

That is why you see alot of coil overs having adjustable dampening. Coilovers are not really designed for ride height adjustment, unless you are changing the mount heights to do the adjustment. If you adjust the spring height, you are actually compressing the spring, which will in turn tighten up your spring rate. The more you compress the spring, the more you stiffen up the ride as you give the coil less room to do its job.

Comparing a bagged truck suspension to an LX's it not even in the same ball park. Most bagged trucks run a double or even triple convoluted bag. This is because they want more lift and suspension travel, especially to tuck a larger wheel. They are also usally set up with bag plates or cups, they do not have shock running through them to help the bag stay centered when under deflection.

As far as the arguement goes for failures, this is partially true. Most bag failures are from improper use, wear, or bad installation techniques.

But when you are talking about anything mechanical, there is always a chance of failure. I have seen coil springs, leaf springs, tire rods, ball joints, etc all fail. Even a tire blow out at higher speeds is very dangerous and way more common than blowing a bag.

You can ask any racer, the key to a better performing suspension is about spring rate, dampening and rebound, lowering the center of gravity, and of course decreasing body roll. All of which can be obtained in an air bag suspension if the right parts are used to do the job.

So sorry to rant, but when I was directed to this thread, I felt that air suspensions were getting a bad rap from people that don't have first hand knowledge of how our cars handle on air suspensions.

Shawn

thank you sir. people talking down on them are people not running them and people running them have good things to say so that figures.



and talking about failures, if i blow a bag now, my car would just drop on my shocks and my tires would rub my fender liner. i dont see how that is the same as a truck that has had the whole frame rebuilt to take bigger wheels and "lay frame" two entirely different tings. apples to oranges there.

[UniversalAirSuspension]

Originally Posted by viper3ez

thank you sir. people talking down on them are people not running them and people running them have good things to say so that figures.



and talking about failures, if i blow a bag now, my car would just drop on my shocks and my tires would rub my fender liner. i dont see how that is the same as a truck that has had the whole frame rebuilt to take bigger wheels and "lay frame" two entirely different tings. apples to oranges there.

From my experience in my old bagged truck, when i blew a bag it was very similar to blowing out a tire. Yes, the corner will drop down, and my tires were rubbing my inner fender wells and the car did pull to that side. When it happened i was going down the fwy and I merged over to the right hand shoulder and then towed my truck home. The reason my bag did blow, was it was rubbing against the suspension.

Now the other day i did have a bag failure in my 300c. I have been pushing it to see how long i could go until they actually failed. We were rotating my tires and after we were done with the one side, and jacking up the other side, the bag let go. Now, keep in mind this was after over 123k miles on the same bags and they have been showing signs that they were going to let go for quite some time (i would say a good 30k miles or so). they were seperating and you could see the threads of the bag. Would i suggest to run them that long, of course not, but we needed to see when they would actually fail.

[Blowndakrt]

All the bad rep for bag setup comes from 3 things. People that have never had them, people that buy the poorly designed kits, and poor installations.

As far as bagged cars vs bagged trucks, you can build a performance suspension for a truck if you use the right components. Sure it will be more costly than a basic kit, but its relative to any modification you do to a vehicle.

As far as support for bags, its not the bags alone I support. Its facts.

I have been around air suspensions for quite some time. We were baggin trucks back when the only game out there was MIC and their 1/4" manual valves and modified the suspensions to run industrial bags. Mostly from Semi applications or industrial machinery dampening.

Bags have come a long way since we first started.

Originally Posted by customaudioman

thanks for your input, most people that down the bags are people who never had them or bad experience with a cheaper setup. Which they dont have facts to support why they effect performance on cars. they have to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.bagged truck and bagged car are totally different. thanks for your bag support.

Like I said above, there are several things that gives bags a bad rep.

There is a thought and engineering that needs to go into any modification for it to work effectively and properly. Just slapping in a bag is not a good way to go.

On our shop truck, it used to be bagged with a basic setup. Basic cups welded to control arms, leaf spring packs pulled apart to run a single leaf spring and a bag mount.

With some control arms made for bags, and engineered for proper suspension cycling, we had smoother suspension movement, less bag and suspension binding, and the ability to go with different bag options to fit our goals.

I wish we would have finished it, but a partner's divorce put a stop to being able to complete it.



Shawn

Originally Posted by viper3ez

thank you sir. people talking down on them are people not running them and people running them have good things to say so that figures.



and talking about failures, if i blow a bag now, my car would just drop on my shocks and my tires would rub my fender liner. i dont see how that is the same as a truck that has had the whole frame rebuilt to take bigger wheels and "lay frame" two entirely different tings. apples to oranges there.