Ride Quality with 22" or 20" Wheels - Page 16

**Northern Rider** · 05-30-2005, 03:43 PM

a few weeks back, I said:

Quote:

Your base is 17" and you increased wheel size by 5" and - you can't tell the difference? That's amazing. How about high speed driving, braking and cornering? Any difference? BTW - spacers are always a bad thing to do, IMO.

Today, you said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croozer

As long as the overall tire O.D. remains the same, wheel size means nothing.

Do you seriously believe what you just wrote?

We are not talking about tinting windows or adding a bit of chrome. This is about ride, control, handling and braking.

A lot is at stake when you make mods to this part of the car. People's lives depend on the car's ability to respond to an emergency in the way it was designed to.

Many young people read this forum who have no engineering knowledge. They may actually believe your claim that you can go from 17" wheels to 22" and "wheel size means nothing".

Care to elaborate on this claim?

Croozer · 06-01-2005, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Rider

Care to elaborate on this claim?

With todays forged 2 and 3 piece wheels the actual unsprung weight is lighter than the factory 17 and 18 inch wheels (The 300 SRT comes with 20 inch wheels from the factory), and do you actually believe a wheel manufacturer is going to chance a huge lawsuit by providing unsafe equipment?

**Northern Rider** · 06-01-2005, 12:22 PM

The factory 18" wheel and tire combo weighs 56 lbs. The rim weighs 26 lbs.

I agree with you about 2 and 3 pce forged wheels being light. They are also very expensive - running well over $600 per wheel (rims only). However, most of the folks putting 22"'s on are buying chrome asian imports weighing in at 40 lbs or more for the rims alone.

It is also very important to note that the 300C has bigger rotors and different calipers and ceramic pads to cope with the increased wheel size.

The SRT-8 goes to Brembo rakes with 4 calipers to cope with the 20" wheel size.

So, a person with a 300 with 17" OEM's who goes to cheap, heavy cast rims and stays with their stock brakes is definitely going find an increase in stopping distances; brake fade; and decreased handling response in avoidance maneuvers.

Wheelsize is very important. It's a matter of physics, not opinion.

Croozer · 06-01-2005, 01:18 PM

LOL!
I have not noticed a rash of Chrysler 300 related deaths and collisions from wheel size.
And there are plenty of 300 riding on 22's.

I had a 2000 Ford Excursion with 38 inch tires on it and a 8 inch lift, and it rode better than stock.

**E55 KEV** · 06-01-2005, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croozer

LOL!
I have not noticed a rash of Chrysler 300 related deaths and collisions from wheel size.
And there are plenty of 300 riding on 22's.

That analogy makes no sense. It would be like someone saying that Explorer or SUV's do not rollover because I have not seen any!

jhelmuth · 06-01-2005, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E55 KEV

Have you checked the air pressure? ...If you are going to stick with the OEM perhaps you could go with the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 in size 235/60/18 which is 29.1" tall. The OEM size 225/60/18 is 28.6". The speedometer will be only 1.7%. So, when the speedo says 60mph the car is actually going 59mph.

Kev,

I imagine that you meant to say that when the speedo says 60mph the car is actuall going 61mph (larger diameter equates to more distance per revolution - speedos measure rotation and extrapolate to linear distance via calculation - hence the error when modifying wheel/tire overall diameter). Also, this may, in fact, be slightly more accurate than stock, as speedos are typically tuned slightly under the actual rated speed by 2-3%.

Also...

You all who do not think (or understand) that modification to wheels do not have an impact (as long as the diameter remains constant - or nearly constant) did not pass your physics classes, and failed auto shop. You reduce the problem to an all too trivial issue of speed. There is so much more to be considered (especially when combining "drop" with wheel/tire mods). Angular momentum, un-sprung weight and it's relevance to drive train and brake assemblies, under/over steering charicteristics with contact width changes, etc. Do yourself a favor... be open-minded enough to go and research this enough to be able to refute all of these accepted and proven engineering practices and physical laws, or maybe you'll be convinced that your earlier notions were wrong after all. If you prove me wrong, I'll be happy to apologize and will change my profession of expertise to your camp.

abendx · 06-01-2005, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croozer

I had a 2000 Ford Excursion with 38 inch tires on it and a 8 inch lift, and it rode better than stock.

whoa croozer.... you are not making any points for yoruself here..... to say a 8" lift rode as good as or better than stock is a flat out fallacy!! i have owned lifted rigs my whole adult life and have never ever once had even a decent ride in a lifted rig.... that is the nature of the beast!

**Northern Rider** · 06-01-2005, 03:04 PM

Thanks for your comments, Jim. I have been waiting for others to jump in. Many of us love to see "show cars" tricked out with the latest bling.

Driving on roads and freeways is another matter. The issue of modifying wheels and tires is important - I have been doing this for street and track for over 40 years.

I have seen way too many people injured and killed over the years as a result of poorly thought out mods to this part of the car.

I just don't want to see another young person get in over their head in the name of "bling".

Croozer · 06-01-2005, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abendx

i have owned lifted rigs my whole adult life and have never ever once had even a decent ride in a lifted rig.... that is the nature of the beast!

That is your opinion, or maybe you should have purchased a better engineered lift, my rig was a daily driver and it rode excellent.

Now back on topic,
The bottom line is that if you feel your life is in danger, don't change nothing, if you like it I love it.

CYA.

jhelmuth · 06-01-2005, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Rider

Thanks for your comments, Jim. I have been waiting for others to jump in. Many of us love to see "show cars" tricked out with the latest bling.

Driving on roads and freeways is another matter. The issue of modifying wheels and tires is important - I have been doing this for street and track for over 40 years.

I have seen way too many people injured and killed over the years as a result of poorly thought out mods to this part of the car.

I just don't want to see another young person get in over their head in the name of "bling".

I'm really not worried about the "death" or "injury" thing. For me, it's just a matter of seeing way too many people igonre the conesquential damage to their car because no one bothered to tell them about the possible damage that can be done. I'm also NOT saying that you can't build a 22" setup that will work correctly... but it will not come cheaply. If you can stay reasonably close to the parameters of the original design (weight, "pad", angular momentum, overall diameter, etc.), then there is almost no reason to be concerned (you will, however, still change the ride characteristics by going to a shorter sidewall, which will place a higher shock load on the suspension via transmission). I understand "looks" - it's the reason for many of the mods we all do to our cars... it makes them unique and personal. But you can't ignore the bad side effects that come with the bill. Please - by all means - make your 22" mod. But do it right by understanding "how" to counteract the changes which are not a positve contribution to the performance of your car. Some of these include (or are usually manditory) suspension and brake changes, judicious selection of wheels and tires - paying particular attention to overall weight (and where that weight is) via forged wheels ($$$'s yikes), etc. (you do the research).

NO SLAMS intended (to anyone)... just go out and educate yourself so that you will not end up with a problem that could be avoided. I happen to like the looks of the 20" (and a few 22's), but do not like the "drops" (and they exacerbate your problems with wheel height).

If all else fails... go see a "real" wheel/tire/performance specialist. They can tell you what you'll need and how to accomlish your look (and what the consequences will be in advance).