[tonylukejr]

Is there a 160 degree or 180 degree thermostat available for the 6.1 L hemi. I ask the guys at a shop near me to install one and they said it isn't available for the 6.1 L hemi yet. Does anyone know if there is one available somewhere that I can order.

Thanks,
Tony

 

[sorbs]

Is there a 160 degree or 180 degree thermostat available for the 6.1 L hemi. I ask the guys at a shop near me to install one and they said it isn't available for the 6.1 L hemi yet. Does anyone know if there is one available somewhere that I can order.

Thanks,
Tony

The answer is yes. http://www.300cforums.com/forums/pe...thermostats-the-lx-hemis.html?highlight=tstat

Read the thread and judge for yourself the pros and cons...if you want to run 20-25° cooler then you'll know what to do.

Let the flames begin!

 

[kevenj]

Is there a 160 degree or 180 degree thermostat available for the 6.1 L hemi. I ask the guys at a shop near me to install one and they said it isn't available for the 6.1 L hemi yet. Does anyone know if there is one available somewhere that I can order.

Thanks,
Tony

No Flames (sorbs :wave: ) but leave the Thermostat alone unless you are building a dedicated 1/4 mile car (which I doubt). First of all the thermostat's rating is only the temperature that it opens, allowing full flow of coolant. So a 160 degree stat will open sooner, but the fan still won't turn on at that low a temperature; so you might run a little cooler on the highway where you have airflow, but not around town in stop and go driving.

Second; if you modify the fan to get it to turn on sooner, you have now done nothing more than triumphantly thrown out 40 years of automotive technology and engineering advancements, and reverted right back to 1966 when lots of cars ran 160 degree thermostats. A modern car is designed to run normally at 200 - 230 degrees; it's more efficient, better for fuel economy, and will allow the engine to burn off condensation in the oil for longer engine life. The whole engine management system is designed around these operating temperatures; you can't alter one thing without affecting the entire system.

Do yourself a favor and leave the correct thermostat in there and go enjoy your car!

If you decide to do it anyway, take the old thermostat in to a good parts store (not a "McParts" store like Autozone, but rather a real parts store, i.e. NAPA or similar) and a good parts guy (or girl) can look it up by the dimensions even if it's not listed by application yet.

 

[pawalu]

No Flames (sorbs :wave: ) but leave the Thermostat alone unless you are building a dedicated 1/4 mile car (which I doubt). First of all the thermostat's rating is only the temperature that it opens, allowing full flow of coolant. So a 160 degree stat will open sooner, but the fan still won't turn on at that low a temperature; so you might run a little cooler on the highway where you have airflow, but not around town in stop and go driving.

Second; if you modify the fan to get it to turn on sooner, you have now done nothing more than triumphantly thrown out 40 years of automotive technology and engineering advancements, and reverted right back to 1966 when lots of cars ran 160 degree thermostats. A modern car is designed to run normally at 200 - 230 degrees; it's more efficient, better for fuel economy, and will allow the engine to burn off condensation in the oil for longer engine life. The whole engine management system is designed around these operating temperatures; you can't alter one thing without affecting the entire system.

Do yourself a favor and leave the correct thermostat in there and go enjoy your car!

If you decide to do it anyway, take the old thermostat in to a good parts store (not a "McParts" store like Autozone, but rather a real parts store, i.e. NAPA or similar) and a good parts guy (or girl) can look it up by the dimensions even if it's not listed by application yet.

You go Kev, you tell um!!!!!!!

 

[BrilliantBlackHemi]

Asking about changing your thermostat is almost as bad as talking about synthetic oil and change intervals. The flames flare up and the mud starts a flyin'

 

[lmhoward]

Asking about changing your thermostat is almost as bad as talking about synthetic oil and change intervals. The flames flare up and the mud starts a flyin'

Yes I know its true. I just think a disclaimer should be attached to the recommendation. The idea is to fool the computer into suppling a rich fuel mixture. Maybe it works. If it works it's not good for the engine. How often do most people race on the street? How often at full throttle? I know a constant rich mixture is not a good thing idling in traffic. Its not a disagreement as far as the track goes. Its not even a question if you are going to race on the way to the 7-11 or Circle K. I believe after 20 minutes of driving, heat soak will be the same no matter what thermostat you have. I like the fan mod. by the way. I may even try the cooler thermostat myself, if I plan to go to the track. But I've lived through what a rich mixture will do to an engine over time. If the only time that is a concern is the 1/4 mile one, its a good mod.

There are some adamant supporters of this mod. It's inexpensive, easy to do and any consequence is probable years down the road. If the car is a daily driver and your not looking for action at every turn, I'm not at all convinced that it's wise to do it. If your always on the prowl, it won't matter, your car won't last anyway.

 

[sorbs]

Asking about changing your thermostat is almost as bad as talking about synthetic oil and change intervals. The flames flare up and the mud starts a flyin'

Yeah, and only found here.

On the LX forum folks don't seem to be so hung up by 40 year old data that was conducted on engines using lead for internal lubrication. Yep that data applied to engines designed using CAD/CAM and microprocessors that control timing and fuel delivery over a point/contact system and Rochester Quadrajets. I'm happy with my 12HP advantage and better fuel economy but to each their own...

BTW, my YZF R1 average temp today was 165°, stock. Should I be worried about the rings grinding themselves into bits as I reach 10,000 RPM shifting into 3rd? I wonder if Ford did any research on this effect on highly efficient 4-cylinders back in the 60s also? Hmmmm....

 

[maneval69]

A lower coolant temp will allow the engine to run a little more timing under heavy loads, which means more power.
The gains will be small unless tuning changes are made to take advantage of the lower temperature combustion chamber.
One of the changes needed is leaning out the A/F ratio (in open loop conditions)
Because of the high temperatures of these engines the A/F is had to run richer than optimum, under heavy acceleration. This is protection for pre-ignition (spark knock).
If the engine running temperature is not reduced and the A/F is leaned out to the proper mix for power, spark knock would result. This would cause the PCM to take timing out to stop the knocking. The reduced timing will negate the gains from the leaner mix.

As far as closed loop programming, the t-stat does not matter as long as the engine heats up enough to go into closed loop. As far as I can tell 160 t-stat may be a problem here but there are people on these forums claiming to run 160 T-stat with no problems.
I would not use anything lower than 180 degrees because of the oil temp.
But unless the fan switch is used the t-stat will only affect engine temp when the car is moving faster than 30 mph.

Fuel economy will not be reduced but emissions will increase.

 

[IGOTTASRT8]

I live in Los Angeles where it's usually pretty warm out. I plan on installing the 180 t stat but don't expect the engine to run any cooler unless I use the GSM Track Mod (which allows me to turn on the fan manually). I'll probably only do this at the track.

Otherwise, I expect the car will run up around where it would normally run with a stock thermostat because the fans have not been programmed to come on sooner.

 

[stevesrt8]

our engines run rich

Yes I know its true. I just think a disclaimer should be attached to the recommendation. The idea is to fool the computer into suppling a rich fuel mixture.

Be careful with that one... the 6.1 motors are already PIG RICH!

Pull a plug and learn to read 'em!



Steve
06 CSRT8
all stock all original
everything but DVD
waiting for software

 

[lmhoward]

Be careful with that one... the 6.1 motors are already PIG RICH!

Pull a plug and learn to read 'em!



Steve
06 CSRT8
all stock all original
everything but DVD
waiting for software

I don't know exactly what you are insinuating, however, I've pulled lots of plugs in my day and reading them is more an art than a science. If things are way out of whack it's simple. Reading a plug after idling will tell you nothing about what's' happening at full throttle. My 40 year old information says to get an accurate reading you have to shut the motor off at full power, pull the plugs and read them, if you know how and what to look for. I imagine the PIG RICH information comes from the A/F ratio supplied from dyno pulls and not from plug reading. Since the all powerful PCM controls all this and changing it is beyond my expertise, I will politely bow out of this discussion. I have a 300c and not a CSRT8 which apparently runs 20 degrees hotter than my 300c. It seems CSRT8 owners run hotter too. Especially when discussing thermostats.

 

[stevesrt8]

plugs are still plugs

I don't know exactly what you are insinuating

Thank you for correctly replying.

No insinuation here. Only facts. Been reading plugs for over 30 years, taught by one of the most famous racing personalities in the world when I was only 15. I build and race cars/engines so a plug and I are all good friends!

Personally, I think dynos are another kind of "bench racing", as I'm only interested if my car can pull your car! Who cares who has more of that mythical "horsepressure"?

Now for a brief bulletin: 6.1 engines run verrrrrrry rich already. The gains when cold are from timing, not A/F ratio.

Pray to the software people...



Steve
06 CSRT8
all stock all original
everything but DVD
waiting for software

 

[lmhoward]

I've been praying for 1-1/2 years. I'll put in a plug for a programmer too. Instead of a cooler thermostat why not have 2 temperature pickups? Stock pickup for the street and one in the coolant overflow when participating in warp speed activities.
A million pardons. I forgot I was bowing out of this discussion.

 

[artichoke]

... I have a 300c and not a CSRT8 which apparently runs 20 degrees hotter than my 300c. ...

I had read somewhere (maybe different places) on the forums that the 300C thermostat is 205 F and the CSRT8 thermostat is 195 F, something like that. My stock CSRT8 runs about 203 EVIC coolant temp on the highway and I saw 217 today on suburban streets.

I thought that stock, the 300C ran warmer than that.

 

[maneval69]

Look at my dyno sheet- no need to read plugs the wide band o2 sensor read the A/F pretty well.
The Dyno chart is a link in my sig.

Before headers the WOT A/F runs little rich up to 3700rpm then it starts getting fat. Now it may need to run that fat with a coolant temp of 210 degrees but I doubt it.
After headers you can see it leans out a bit under 3700. Also notice that is where the big power gains are. After 3700 the mix goes way, way too rich. If I could lean out the top end the peak HP gains would show a major improvement.

Because of how fat I'm running a Tstat would not do anything for me.
Once we get a programmer to adjust that A/F to 13.0 across the board, I will get a little something out of a cooler Tstat.

 

[stevesrt8]

there's what I'm talkin' about!

Look at my dyno sheet Because of how fat I'm running a Tstat would not do anything for me.Once we get a programmer to adjust that A/F to 13.0 across the board, I will get a little something out of a cooler Tstat.

Way to go, man! That is what I've been trying to tell people about the whole T-stat issue.

Without comp. mods, the ONLY gain from a cooler motor is from timing. We will not benefit from richer A/F. We've already got it!

Pray for a good programmer!


Steve
06 CSRT8
all stock all original
everything but DVD
waiting for software

 

[Northern Rider]

Thank you for correctly replying.

No insinuation here. Only facts. Been reading plugs for over 30 years, taught by one of the most famous racing personalities in the world when I was only 15. I build and race cars/engines so a plug and I are all good friends!

Personally, I think dynos are another kind of "bench racing", as I'm only interested if my car can pull your car! Who cares who has more of that mythical "horsepressure"?

Now for a brief bulletin: 6.1 engines run verrrrrrry rich already. The gains when cold are from timing, not A/F ratio.

Pray to the software people...



Steve
06 CSRT8
all stock all original
everything but DVD
waiting for software

Another plug reader! Steve, that was also the first thing I learned, as well. I still do it.

Years ago it was carb jets, screwdrivers, scopes, timing lights - then we went to the mods. Today, the plugs still tell the same stories - if you can read 'em.

Without a good programmer, however, all the rest of this is wasted talk until you can tune.

 

[Meister]

...Because of how fat I'm running a Tstat would not do anything for me...

GIFO3 showed an immediate 7hp gain when I replaced CoolVanilla's stock tstat with my favorite tstat, the Prestone 170.

I consistently romp all over similar LXes running stock tstats.

Theory is interesting. You can't argue with results.

 

[stevesrt8]

no argument

Mister Meister, there can be no argument as to the performance gains. Cooler is faster.

I believe in my CSRT8 that all the gains when cold come from timing, as my plugs say PIG RICH! Wish I could lean this baby out just a bit!

But then again, a 12.89 isn't too bad for a giant 4 door! And a terminal speed of 111 MPH only promises more to come.


Steve
06 CSRT8
all stock all original
everything but DVD
waiting for software