Chrysler 300C & SRT8 Forums banner

21 - 38 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
953 Posts
I am confused...if it is not listed in the owners manual w/ maint schedule....should I never service the transmission? or should I still do a service around 60K? why wouldnt they list it in the owners manual?
As a practical matter, there is no such thing as a "lifetime transmission fluid". The transmission includes wear items such as clutches, and wear material will accumulate and eventually begin to degrade the lubrication qualities of the fluid. ATF is hygroscopic, and will absorb water and moisture. Also, the additive package in the fluid will become depleted, so that it no longer will provide the same protection as new fluid.

There are a number of reasons why Chrysler, or any other manufacturer, would not encourage you to service your transmission. One is a desire to make it look as if their cars require less service than a competitor's. Another would be that no manufacturer wants their cars to last forever. In fact, most manufacturers practice de-engineering; if a component lasts longer than what they consider to be its "service life", they work to make it lighter and cheaper so that it doesn't last as long.

You can do as you like, but as I mentioned upthread, I like to do a filter and partial transmission fluid change at least every 50,000 miles or so. When you drop the pan and refill, you're only changing about a third of the fluid. If you wait until 80 or 100,000 miles, chances are the fluid will be contaminated and in poor condition, meaning that you should really flush it all out and replace all of it with fresh fluid. That's a much more involved procedure, which is why I'd rather do a pan drop every 50k or sooner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
953 Posts
My biggest bone to pick was the electric power steering... My 2012 started shuddering when turning vigorously to the left while parking. My mechanic saw no way to drain the system short of taking the whole thing down and apart. It did not seem to be a serviceable mechanism.
I've changed the EPS fluid twice in my '14 Charger R/T Blacktop. It's tedious but not very complicated. I'm not sure why your mechanic couldn't figure it out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I do not know why Chrysler doesn't put that into the owner's manual. But everybody I have spoken to agree that the transmission should have a fluid change at 100K miles. My experience with my 2012 was that the fluid was getting dirty at about that time. I think the radiator fluid has a service interval like that as well. My favorite mechanic also liked to change out the brake fluid even though it doesn't say when to change that either.

My biggest bone to pick was the electric power steering... My 2012 started shuddering when turning vigorously to the left while parking. My mechanic saw no way to drain the system short of taking the whole thing down and apart. It did not seem to be a serviceable mechanism.
so odd to me that they omit tranny service in the owners manual. is there any "downside" to a tranny service before 100K miles? say 60 or 80K?

when would you rec to flush out brake fluid? I've never done that before and car is at 45K.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
As a practical matter, there is no such thing as a "lifetime transmission fluid". The transmission includes wear items such as clutches, and wear material will accumulate and eventually begin to degrade the lubrication qualities of the fluid. ATF is hygroscopic, and will absorb water and moisture. Also, the additive package in the fluid will become depleted, so that it no longer will provide the same protection as new fluid.

There are a number of reasons why Chrysler, or any other manufacturer, would not encourage you to service your transmission. One is a desire to make it look as if their cars require less service than a competitor's. Another would be that no manufacturer wants their cars to last forever. In fact, most manufacturers practice de-engineering; if a component lasts longer than what they consider to be its "service life", they work to make it lighter and cheaper so that it doesn't last as long.

You can do as you like, but as I mentioned upthread, I like to do a filter and partial transmission fluid change at least every 50,000 miles or so. When you drop the pan and refill, you're only changing about a third of the fluid. If you wait until 80 or 100,000 miles, chances are the fluid will be contaminated and in poor condition, meaning that you should really flush it all out and replace all of it with fresh fluid. That's a much more involved procedure, which is why I'd rather do a pan drop every 50k or sooner.
thanks for the detailed response. this is great to know. I will earmark having the partial tranny fluide change at 50K or 60K to be "preventative"
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
30 Posts
I honestly wouldn't worry about brake fluid for awhile. It's not like a tranny with moving parts, it's just hydraulic fluid that pushes the pistons back and forth. Wait until you replace your pads at 80-100k.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dan0o0o

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,370 Posts
I honestly wouldn't worry about brake fluid for awhile. It's not like a tranny with moving parts, it's just hydraulic fluid that pushes the pistons back and forth. Wait until you replace your pads at 80-100k.
Brake fluid also loves to take up water, and you most certainly do not want that turning to steam!

By the way, none of my brake pads made it to 80K miles. I think it was more like half of that. Come to think of it, only the pads on the right rear actually wore out. (They jammed on one side, wore unevenly, and scored the disks. 😢 Speaking of disks, before my pads wear out, I got a lot of shuddering and uneven braking at about 25K miles, particularly when the brakes were hot. I was thinking of finding better-than-OEM rotors to replace the ones that kept warping. But I just went with the OEM at least twice on my 2012, meaning that it had 2 complete replacements and needed a 3rd when I traded it on my 2020.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
30 Posts
Well that's not very many miles. I got 80k from my front oem brake pads and more like 100k from my rears. Hell my front rotors didn't start pulsating due to warpage until 120k miles... I suppose it can depend on where you live. I'm in AZ so water vapor is not something we encounter very often. I also use the engine and tranny to brake as much as I physically use the brake pedal.

I ended up going with Powerstop rotors and pads. They feel good, look good, don't squeel, stop straight and stop hard.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheKrell

·
Registered
Joined
·
953 Posts
Brake fluid also loves to take up water, and you most certainly do not want that turning to steam!
This.

Ounce for ounce, brake fluid may be the most neglected automotive fluid out there. It starts to absorb water pretty much immediately, so the boiling point gets lower and lower as it ages. I like to do it every three years or so, but at the bare minimum, you should ensure that it's done every time you get new pads.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
154 Posts
Vw says 3 years/36,000. These are heavier than our jetta was.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
30 Posts
We are talking about 1 to maybe 2% water absorption a year. Nothing to get worried about during the lifespan of the pads.

Avg yearly mileage is roughly 15k. So in 4 years it will be time to change pads and fluid and you MIGHT have a whole 4-8% water. If you're using DOT 4 you'll never need to worry.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
953 Posts
From Bendix's website:

After a year in service, brake fluid would have absorbed about 2% water and will have progressed to 3% water after only 18 months. These figures would be a lot higher in places that are humid and wet. Moisture in brake fluid decreases its boiling point – 2% water will reduce the brake fluid’s boiling point by 75°C. The boiling point drop becomes more pronounced as more moisture is absorbed.

Moisture contamination heightens the risk of brake failure especially during extreme braking conditions like driving downhill or in constant stop and go in heavy traffic or when carrying heavy loads. Constant braking transmits a lot of heat to the brake fluid from the pads and rotors. If a considerable degree of moisture were present, these would easily boil off and form vapour which is extremely compressible and this is when the pedal starts feeling spongy and the brakes would not apply at all!!

This is the reason why there have been many cases of brake failures even if the braking systems were found to be mechanically in order. In fact, the brakes worked perfectly again after the system has cooled down and the vapour has condensed.

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,370 Posts
Well that's not very many miles. I got 80k from my front oem brake pads and more like 100k from my rears. Hell my front rotors didn't start pulsating due to warpage until 120k miles... I suppose it can depend on where you live. I'm in AZ so water vapor is not something we encounter very often. I also use the engine and tranny to brake as much as I physically use the brake pedal.
Spectacular mileage! My problem in VA is all the stop and go in traffic, and also coming down from Skyline Drive which I do many times/year because I love the mountains. You have plenty of traffic and mountains in AZ too. I traded my 2012 when it had nearly 160K on the odometer. So, counting the immediate replacement by it's new owner as #3, I got an average of over 50K miles/pads and rotors.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
30 Posts
Like I said it's just not something I worry about, not here in AZ at least. If one is concerned then change the fluid! Use a good dot 4 synthetic like valvoline.

To me it's like overreacting to something that really isn't an issue every 3 to 4 years meanwhile your tires are bald on the inside but you're worried about water in your brake lines all the while your brakes stop perfectly fine every single time. Just my .02
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
When would you recommend doing a tranny flush/service? Have heard 60K is the right time. any other opinions/experiences here?
ZF, the manufacturer recommends periodic fluid changes. Somewhere in the range of 40 ~ 60,000 miles. My dealer offers only flush, my transmission mechanic and I (long time ex mechanic) believe in dropping the pan, changing the pan and fluid. It's NOT cheap, I did it on my '13 300S, my wife's '15 Durango, and if I ever put any miles (working from home) on it, my '16 300S will also get fluid changes. Info I found in 2014 follows, also note; info on getting parts cheaper than the dealer included below, that's where I got the stuff for my '13 300S:

I also found the '14 Jeep Grand Cherokee uses a different pan with slightly more capacity, looks like it would be a straight bolt on and apparently no ground clearance reduction.

Based on what I've found I think using the NAG1 severe duty service schedule might be advisable.

Today I searched for Shell-L12108 and found some interesting information from the jeep forum, copied verbatim:

If you are speaking of the ZF 8spd transmission they all basically use the same method to service the transmission.
Procedure (we need to verify with the service manual but all ZF transmissions I have serviced operate this way)
Open the fill plug (by the way the fill plug is usually so tight that you need to tap it hard with a hammer on either a torx (typical) or Allen fastener
Open drain plug and drain old Lifeguard 8 out of the pan.
If you wish to change the filter typically (again we need to see the service manual) the pan and filter are an integral part and you take the 20 some bolts out after draining and expect another liter to be in there too. Some ZF transmission use a separate filter and pan, it all depends on what Jeep spec'ed.

Now to refill this is where ZF departs from almost all other transmission manufacturers. Fill transmission engine off to weeping out of fill hole obviously drain plug in. Then start car shift through all the gears until the transmission temp reaches 80-120 F. Now with the transmission RUNNING refill until weeping out the fill hole, put the plug in once done and that is it.

I am looking forward to seeing what the service manual says but I am guessing this is pretty close.
Here is where I get my ZF fluids and filters. Only the LG 8 is listed but it is listed for the 8HP70
The CTSC - ZF Parts

Hope this helps some. I am sure we will all learn more once more service information is available...

Next post from same poster:

We will have to see what the interval is but typically the manufacturer recommends a service at 100K miles and ZF at 50K miles. I will be changing mine at around 35-40K miles and every 40-50K miles there after.
No light I am aware of on any ZF transmission. Some transfer case cars do get a light to change their fluid.
I defer to the manual which I have not read in detail yet but ZF is very consistent with what they recommend...

This is from ZF responding to an Audi owner with the 8spd transmission. 2013
Your ZF automatic transmission is filled maintenance-free with specially developed partially synthetic ATF oil. Maintenance-free fills are intended for normal operating conditions.

However, especially driving at very high operating temperatures can result in accelerated aging or increased wear of ATF oils. It is recommended, in the event of severe operating
conditions, such as:

  • frequent highway driving in top speed range,
  • offensive, sporty driving style,
  • frequent trailer operation,

being above average, oil purification (oil change) on automatic transmissions is recommended between 80,000 km and 120,000 km, or 8 years, depending on the load.

In each case, only released ATF oil may be used for oil changes. And oil changes must be performed in accordance with the relevant specifications.

This means that there isn't such a thing as lifetime fill and that virtually any kind of driving we do we should change the fluid at 50K miles or is you wish 75K miles...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #35 ·
What do you all think of a COOLING SYSTEM FLUSH SERVICE on my 2016 300 S? Nearing 45K miles and mechanic wants to do that for $199.

never done on car before. Is it worth it at 45K? or how long do you all wait?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
953 Posts
What do you all think of a COOLING SYSTEM FLUSH SERVICE on my 2016 300 S? Nearing 45K miles and mechanic wants to do that for $199.

never done on car before. Is it worth it at 45K? or how long do you all wait?
Your factory coolant service interval is 150,000 miles or 10 years, whichever comes first.

With that said, what I would probably do with your car sometime in the next year or so is drain the radiator and refill with a 50/50 mixture of genuine Mopar Purple OAT coolant and distilled water. Then do that every five years or so thereafter.

Oh, and this is important. Never trust anyone, including a Chrysler dealer service tech, to put the correct coolant in your 300C. Chrysler changed from HOAT to OAT in 2013, and the two are not compatible. As a result, there are entirely too many 300s and Chargers out there with cooling systems clogged from incompatible coolant mixing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Your factory coolant service interval is 150,000 miles or 10 years, whichever comes first.

With that said, what I would probably do with your car sometime in the next year or so is drain the radiator and refill with a 50/50 mixture of genuine Mopar Purple OAT coolant and distilled water. Then do that every five years or so thereafter.

Oh, and this is important. Never trust anyone, including a Chrysler dealer service tech, to put the correct coolant in your 300C. Chrysler changed from HOAT to OAT in 2013, and the two are not compatible. As a result, there are entirely too many 300s and Chargers out there with cooling systems clogged from incompatible coolant mixing.
oh sheesh. thanks for the tip here.kinda nervous they'd screw it up or not get that mixture right. would they be used to the 50/50 mixture you mentioned/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
953 Posts
oh sheesh. thanks for the tip here.kinda nervous they'd screw it up or not get that mixture right. would they be used to the 50/50 mixture you mentioned/
The biggest problem is that so many people (including many experienced mechanics, I'm not going to speak about your specific shop) don't know the difference between HOAT and OAT coolant, and sometimes they mix the two, with disastrous results.

It's simpler if you just don't trust anyone else to touch your coolant. If you can open and close a drain valve and pour liquids from a bottle, you can do the work yourself.
 
21 - 38 of 38 Posts
Top