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Discussion Starter #1
I heard, early on, that our Engine was Detuned by the Factory DOWN to 425 HP, as a safeguard against overwhelming the rest of the Drivetrain.

Anybody else hear this? What was done to detune it if it was. Hardware or Software or Both? What was the original HP Rating during Tests, etc.

Thanks;

LJB :smoker:
 

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per srt engineers

at the SRTTE in Homestead I was told that the first "Mules" were running
0-60 in the threes and were faster than the ESP could respond!

Pray that software guy can figure these cars out. There's a lot of HP in these motors by tuning.

Steve
06 CSRT8
all stock all original
everything but DVD
waiting for software
 

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just a lunch

well, that's exactly what was said at lunch. We had the chief of the entire SRT program as well as two of the program engineers there. Had quite an interesting conversation. Also had dozens of accredited race drivers there from Skip Barber, including Terry Earwood!

please remember these were test mules and may not even be close to production cars.

Bottom line remains, there is a LOT of extra HP in these motors by software tuning. One of the most extremely conservative setups I have ever seen in a production engine in over 30 years. PIG RICH!


Steve
06 CSRT8
all stock all original
everything but DVD
Still waiting for software
 

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All the numbers I've seen suggest it's been detuned for advertising purposes. I think they already make about 450hp stock, and fully expect them to recertify the engines and start advertising them as higher horsepower. I honestly believe the 425 number was just a gimmick to match it the the original rating of the original 426Hemi.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So, let me get all this straight. All these aftermarket headers, intake setups, and looped chips currently offered are so much child's play compared to just a straight up (Chrysler ?) Chip unleashing the full potential of the hardware already under the hood of our cars.

That's what I figured...

Take the Hardware already in our 6.1 Hemi (the High C/R, the Radical Cam, the Factory Headers, the low restriction intake, yadda, yadda, yadda) put in a full blown chip, and, voila! 500 Plus HP.

Damlier/Chrysler has saved the rest of the Drivetrain from an unleashed 6.1 Hemi.

....THAT'S the Bottom Line.

LJB :evil:
 

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M3SMG02 said:
...Damlier/Chrysler has saved the rest of the Drivetrain from an unleashed 6.1 Hemi.

....THAT'S the Bottom Line...
Nope. The drivetrain's not the issue. It's been handling 500, even 600, hp for years.

You'll need to look elsewhere for your answer.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Meister said:
Nope. The drivetrain's not the issue. It's been handling 500, even 600, hp for years.

You'll need to look elsewhere for your answer.

...ok, so what's the answer?

LJB :evil:
 

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M3SMG02 said:
...ok, so what's the answer?

LJB :evil:

Well I agree that there is a lot of potential just in the software. And I also agree that it's already making more than they 425 hp they claim. On paper the SRT8 should not be able to beat an LS2 GTO, but from what I've read in several posts, the GTO is not a problem for the SRT8. It's obviously stronger than what Chrysler is fessin' up to.

The "answer" to WHY they kept it conservative, in MY opinion, is the same reason a weekend drag racer "sandbags" - - to lull his competition into complacency. When the other guy thinks he knows what he has to beat, the sandbagger shows him what he's REALLY got!.... Chrysler is just sandbagging so that after the 469 hp Caddy STS-V hits the street they can "tune up" the 6.1 liter hemi a bit and be back on top.
 

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Kevin, I dont think they need that to take out the STS-V. In a recent CAr and Driver, they tested the STS-V against the CLS55 AMG and M5.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=10433&page_number=1

Oddly enough, a Charger SRT-8 showed up just as they were heading to the track, so they took it (page 2 of that article). Heres what they had to say

we were able to herd the bad-boy Dodge around the track in 1:32.65, just 0.1 second behind the CLS55 Benz and almost a full second quicker than the Cadillac STS-V.
That certainly doesnt sould like a car that needs a power bump to take on the STS-V:) Of course, I agree there will be one, but just becuase its a good thing:)
 

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quarter times

ET's don't lie. this motor must make more than 425 HP because we could not run the times we do with the advertised amount.

My math comes up with around 460 - 488 based on ET. Chrysler was smart and conservative. Who wouldn't be happy when their car beats all the ad predictions?

Some of the new STS-V owners are already complaining about lack of HP.


I'm not.


Steve
06 CSRT8
all stock all original
everything but DVD
waiting for software
 

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Are there any Dyno numbers posted for the 6.1L that is completely stock?
 

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yeah...bone stock with more than 6k miles on?
 

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marnepup said:
yeah...bone stock with more than 6k miles on?
You rang?
This was a pure stock Dyno run. Mileage was between 6,000 and 7,000 miles.
Testing on another engine showed a drop of 17.5% between the chassis dyno and the engine dyno. If you then take my results divided by .825, you get an engine rating of 447HP. My results are similar to a dozen other people's results. Most people got the same as my car +/- about 3 HP.
 

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stevesrt8 said:
ET's don't lie. this motor must make more than 425 HP because we could not run the times we do with the advertised amount.

My math comes up with around 460 - 488 based on ET. Chrysler was smart and conservative. Who wouldn't be happy when their car beats all the ad predictions?

Some of the new STS-V owners are already complaining about lack of HP.


I'm not.


Steve
06 CSRT8
all stock all original
everything but DVD
waiting for software

This was an incredibly smart move on the part of DCX.....under rate the HP and overachieve at the dyno and the track.....and like JMatt said, it's pretty ironic that they chose the EXACT same hp rating as the legendary sreet hemi..425hp (that's what we call marketing :wink1: )


here's another thing to consider....the hp to weight ratio of the 300C SRT8 and the CTS-V are almost exactly the same.....roughly 9.9 lbs per hp.....yet the 1/4 mile times for the SRT8 have been about .5 faster than the V in almost every mag. so either the CTS-V hp is over-rated (which is probably doubtful) or the SRT8 is a little under -rated.....and at the end of the day the dyno's really don't lie.......and they're consistently showing right at 450hp at the flywheel
 

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Could that explain why the vehicles seem to get faster with age; the programming evolves with the owners driving habits and taps into the engine's "hidden" horsepower ?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
hirollerZ said:
Could that explain why the vehicles seem to get faster with age; the programming evolves with the owners driving habits and taps into the engine's "hidden" horsepower ?
I wouldn't be surprised if MoPar programs the engine to operate in "Break In" mode for, say 1,000 miles, and, when it completely breaks in at 5,000, it's operating at peak (limited only by the chip's program) efficiency.

Anybody know?

And, what about my original question:

Is the Hardware Already There, just limited by Software?

LJB :sasmokin:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Oh, BTW, anybody see the Detroit Auto Show pics of the Challenger and the Imperial?

Yuuuummm!

LJB :smoker:
 

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M3SMG02 said:
I wouldn't be surprised if MoPar programs the engine to operate in "Break In" mode for, say 1,000 miles, and, when it completely breaks in at 5,000, it's operating at peak (limited only by the chip's program) efficiency.

Anybody know?

LJB :sasmokin:
I wouldn't be surprised if they did this. When I bought my Dakota in 2000 the dealer told me I should expect to see the idle RPM's drop after a specified mileage was reached. I think he said the RPM's would go from 800+ down to around 500. Sure enough at the indicated mileage the RPM's went down.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
dlyle said:
I wouldn't be surprised if they did this. When I bought my Dakota in 2000 the dealer told me I should expect to see the idle RPM's drop after a specified mileage was reached. I think he said the RPM's would go from 800+ down to around 500. Sure enough at the indicated mileage the RPM's went down.
Yup. Reminds me of the older carburated cars of the 60's, early 70's. I recall a MoPar Chassis Manual spec'ing higher idle speed adjustments for new cars, and then adjusting downwards after 500 miles. New engines have greater friction to overcome, the higher idle speeds compensated for this.

LJB :sasmokin:
 
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