[turbohips]

Hey guys and gal (HEMEE),
I found a site that offers a true CAI for our cars. The site is http://www.domesticperformance.com/...193e194b323e29f

I attached a picture of what it looks like. Hopefully it shows. I don't really know if $350 is worth the 10-15 horses. What do you guys/gal think?

P.S.
I hope that I didn't ruin the silencer removal guys. That really was a fun thread.

 

[goddardzilla]

No HP increase for $$$

Assuming that the 300c uses a fuel system is of the same type as the Hemi truck engines - anyone with a 300c and hemi truck service or parts manual verify that please?

- then without computer reprogramming these cold air systems based in increased airflow will not bring increased horsepower. This is due to Chrysler using a Non-MAF sensor fuel system. The Hemi has a speed density system. This means that any increase in airflow into the engine goes unseen by the rest of the system.

If a modification is done that increases mass airflow, such as a cold-air package, the computer has to be reprogrammed accordingly, to obtain a HP gain.

 

[3SRT4ME]

Hey guys and gal (HEMEE),
I found a site that offers a true CAI for our cars. The site is http://www.domesticperformance.com/...193e194b323e29f

I attached a picture of what it looks like. Hopefully it shows. I don't really know if $350 is worth the 10-15 horses. What do you guys/gal think?

P.S.
I hope that I didn't ruin the silencer removal guys. That really was a fun thread.

BUYER BEWARE!!! Timon Anderson is disorganized and unreliable at best. At worst he is a thief and a liar. Take a look at the following forum thread: http://www.dodgeforum.com/m_108832/mpage_3/key_/tm.htm

 

[Gloveperson]

That doesn't look like something I would buy; too flashy and ricey. Metal CAI always seemed like an oxymoron to me, too.

 

[II kings 9:20]

BUYER BEWARE!!! Timon Anderson is disorganized and unreliable at best. At worst he is a thief and a liar. Take a look at the following forum thread: http://www.dodgeforum.com/m_108832/mpage_3/key_/tm.htm

I read that entire thread, fascinating and unfortunate.

 

[99gt]

lol... how do people figure they get a 10-15 RWHP inccrease out of a naturally aspirated car with CAI

quote un-quote from the other forum

"Figure an improvement of 10 -15 hp to show up on a decent dyno and then another 3% for the decreased air intake temperature. "

 

[goddardzilla]

Originally posted by 99gt
lol... how do people figure they get a 10-15 RWHP inccrease out of a naturally aspirated car with CAI

I'll answer this one: A basic understanding of physics is required

In general Cold air intakes increase RWHP (on a V8 engine) because they bring in lower temperature air, which is not from under the hot hood area. The thing about lower temp air is that it is higher density than the hot air under the hood. It therefore contains more oxygen for combustion for a given air volume. It therefore require a bit more fuel to keep the mixture correct, this gives the RWHP increase - so far so good.

On fuel injected engines with a MASS AIRFLOW SENSOR (MAF) Def: A device used to measure the amount of air entering the engine so the computer can control the air/fuel mixture. The computer adds a bit more fuel to the higher density air to keep the mixture correct and adds a bit mor RWHP

Unfortunately Chrysler opted for a SPEED DENSITY injection system which has a fixed injection profile in the computer for that engine's fuel requirements. It cannot self-adjust the amount of fuel for extra airflow from a well designed CAI. So no RWHP gains will be seen, or dynoed.

Only a hack into the injection computer software, or a black box, will allow changes in the fuel for cold air. The SPEED DENSITY method of monitoring air intake is a stumbling block to installing high-performance engine components Chrysler is not releasing the software code to make a hacked adjustment or black box easier.

With SPEED DENSITY injection there are limited situations where extra airflow can be beneficial to RWHP but the require other mods and can never be really accurately calibrated due to the fixed profile factory SPEED DENSITY inj. software

BEWARE of any advertising that currently says CAI increases RWHP on the HEMI.

Not too much Blah Blah Blah I hope, but you deserve a full explanation

 

[tekhen]

okay so it seems that my thought process was correct.
All of the folk who have purchased CAI, headers and exhaust systems are not getting extra HP or torque due to the PCM.?

I am hoping that by the spring DCX will 'share' the code.

 

[3SRT4ME]

okay so it seems that my thought process was correct.
All of the folk who have purchased CAI, headers and exhaust systems are not getting extra HP or torque due to the PCM.?

If this is the case, how do you reconcile the dyno results posted recently by Rogue that indicate clear increases in HP and torque for the exhaust and air intake systems?

 

[II kings 9:20]

If you look at the stock intake, it's about as cold as it gets, in the left front fender near the sidr marker light. Short of a ram air tube connected to the fog intake I don't see how the stock intake location can be improved upon. A better filter yes, TrueFlow did not make an intake because they felt that the stock setup was best, I run thier air filter with the silencer portion of the intake chopped off for some induction noise at WOT.

 

[goddardzilla]

In reply to 300C4ME and tekhen's posts

see my (Goddardzilla's) statement:

With SPEED DENSITY injection there are limited situations where extra airflow can be beneficial to RWHP but the require other mods and can never be really accurately calibrated due to the fixed profile factory SPEED DENSITY inj. software

If a better flowing cold air system is used with a better flowing exhaust on a SPEED DENSITY injection system. The balance of airflow may be still acceptable to injection software map. This is not the computer adjusting to the modifications, but the modifications fitting the software ECU map.

Rogue nails it in his statement

In combination, exhaust and intake makes a notable HP and Torque Improvement over stock specs, even without ECU tuning of any kind. It's hard to tell how much HP/Torque can be gained from Cold Air Intakes without exhaust until further dyno tests are provided.

It makes no sense allowing a beast to inhale more if it cannot exhale an equal amount.

 

[tekhen]

300C,

Although I am not an auto engineer or tech., I know there are some things mechanically that can be done to raise HP&TQ. I also know that these cars have an electrical system that controls the items we are discussing.

As IIKings has pointed out one group has stated that the OEM design is as good as it gets w/o forced air.

Even with forced air and the other performance mods the car will not be as efficient due to DCX holding on to the controls.

What is the gas to air mixture? etc. etc. w/o the hack, it remains the same.
My point is with the mods, if the PCM is not enhanced the changes will not be as good as you think.

 

[mag300cSTL]

Speed Density vs Mass Air Flow

Correct me if I am wrong, but I hear that the stock 300c Air/Fuel ratio is WAY rich. Perhaps adding something like an Airraid intake would be beneficial as the Speed Density system would not add more fuel which would "lean" out the ratio a bit, thereby adding horsepower. I've had other vehicles gain BIG hp on the dyno simply by leaning out the fuel mixture from the factory pig rich settings...i'd like to hear opinions..

Oh, AIRRAID claims 12HP and 14lbs/ft of torque to the wheels with their system...i plan on ordering very soon...

 

[3SRT4ME]

So the bottom line is that there are HP/torque gains to be had with the CAI, headers and exhaust. Period. Those gains are limited by the PCM, but they are there. Of course, once the computer has been cracked, those gains are going to open up.

 

[m3eater]

OK, this thread has me shaking my head. I understand about FI..... I drive a GTP. More fuel & more air equals more power. Colder air has more O2 which given more fuel will gain power. Better flow (intake and exhaust) equals more power. I also understand that most stock cars run slightly to pig rich, to avoid running lean in certain WOT situations. A vehicle's PCM/VCM can change the fuel slightly within a certain bandwidth if the air consumption changes. However, the 300 has no MAF?!

It seems folks have been getting gains, but we must be running very rich. Hmmmm. And forget about blowers or turbos until a PCM tuner is available.

Shouldn't tuners be able to adjust the fuel with an EGT or AFC to net further gains?

 

[goddardzilla]

Just a thought ..........

.

DC engineers may have used SPEED DENSITY Injection system for 3 reasons

1. It's cheaper (fact)

2. Because of the difficulties relating to modifying the engine and difficulties keeping the fuel/air mixture correct. They know less tuning stuff will be produced and they hope less bought. Therefore they will have less modified engine related warranty claims. (speculation)

3. Unlike MAF sensor injection SPEED DENSITY Injection is not self adjusting to modifications. Claims that do occur more can be denied due to the fact that adding cold air intakes, headers, exhausts may throw off the mixture and void the warranty.. (high probability based on my prior experience)

 

[turbohips]

Well holy cow I had no idea that my simple thread would gain so much tech info. I'm about ten times smarter or more confused now. I can't really tell.

 

[II kings 9:20]

Let's see some dyno results from all these guys getting all these hp gains, I have yet to see one dyno sheet, maybe I missed it, perhaps someone could point us to all these sheets or post it here, that will settle this, I am in the camp that says no measurable gains until the chip is adjusted, will gladly retract this if any private dyno sheets are posted, don't really need to see falsified sheets from the companies.

 

[3SRT4ME]

I can't say what happen to Rogue's post. But the thread from which he pulled the dyno sheets is here: http://www.dodgemagnum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4879&highlight=dyno+cai

Although generated by the unscrupulous manufacturer of the product, here is a dyno sheet that I recently received.

 

[II kings 9:20]

I can't say what happen to Rogue's post. But the thread from which he pulled the dyno sheets is here: http://www.dodgemagnum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4879&highlight=dyno+cai

Thanks for the link, some hard evidence finally, statement retracted, I feel pretty good about my silencer mod and open lower mesh inserts.