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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
it seems to me that so far there is more power to be had from the 5.7 engine vs the 6.1. is this because the 6.1 is newer and they have yet to unleash its potential or what? which car in the better car to crank up the hp #'s. I know as far as overall performance, handling, braking etc the 6.1 cars have it but which car would you all choose to modify for the drag strip? also does the 6.1 have a beefier trany and drive train?
 

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no replacment theory. The bigger the motor the more you have to utilize. The 5.7 is more durable if done right as of now. But wait till the aftermarket gets thier hands on a 6.1. Im hoping to see 600hp numbers soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
GoofyGuy said:
no replacment theory. The bigger the motor the more you have to utilize. The 5.7 is more durable if done right as of now. But wait till the aftermarket gets thier hands on a 6.1. Im hoping to see 600hp numbers soon.

I keep on debating on weather to mod the hell out of my 5.7 or sell it and get a 6.1 and mod the hell out of that. no doubt I could make my 5.7 lots of fun but I cant help but think that the 6.1 might be more fun! i cant decide! :mad:
 

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fionn said:
I keep on debating on weather to mod the hell out of my 5.7 or sell it and get a 6.1 and mod the hell out of that. no doubt I could make my 5.7 lots of fun but I cant help but think that the 6.1 might be more fun! i cant decide! :mad:
I was in the same position as you. I was looking at trading my 5.7 300C in for the 6.1 300C SRT8 too. I've had my 300C for 11 months and have installed borla exhaust, slotted / drilled rotors, 77 piece dash kit, mesh grill, and all the other options I wanted and did not want to start all over again.

In order for me to trade in my car for an SRT8 it was going to cost me over 12K after everything was said and done. My car has 19,800 miles on it so the bluebook trade in value is $29,150 and Private party selling price is $32,205. The price of an SRT8 is about 43K from what I have seen on the web. So with Tax and averything it would have been about 12K for me to do the upgrade. With a stock SRT8 I would have about 398 rwhp.

Then if I wanted more power it would be about $7400 for the GS supercharger with installation and tuning which would get me about 500 rwhp 507 TQ. So I decided to go with plan B.

I purchased the GS Motorsports Supercharger with the big boost kit good for about 500 rwhp and 450 TQ on 12-02-05. I am having the guys at GS Motorsports install it for me on 12-19-05. For me this the best choice for the money.

If I had it all to do over again I would have got the SRT8. I hope my input helps. Now for damage control. The prices, HP, TQ, and other calculations are not 100% accurate. If someone has the correct numbers please feel free to correct me. Someone always does. I just pulled these figures from the web and the forum. I would also like to say that I love the SRT8. I just thought it was a better choice for me to go with the GS Motorsports S/C with big boost kit.
 

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GoofyGuy said:
The 5.7 is more durable if done right as of now.
Based on? It seems your saying that with both motors getting the same mods, the 5.7 is "more durable". Could you pin that down? If you mean the 5.7 will take more boost, that would be true, since its lower compression. But it would take less boost for the 6.1 to perform equally, I would think.
 

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more durable than what?

the 6.1 is a completely different motor. different block! different rods! different in so many ways (see Allpar.com for the details) that they are barely even comparable. 6.1 was built to make high HP and be durable doing it. The tranny in SRT8 comes from GERMANY! Can you say AMG? Read and learn the different parts used in boosted motors that make really high HP and last more than a few weekends. Most notable one is LOW COMPRESSION pistons!

Putting any kind of supercharging on either one is a recipe for disaster. No tuning is available so all the fuel enrichment will be "band-aid" style. Neither engine was ever designed for positive manifold pressure. Timing and such cannot be tuned (this is most critical).

Putting boost to a modern high compression engine that was never designed for it is possible, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Note that I truly believe it is your car and you should do whatever you want. I am only trying to give you the benefit of over 30 years as an enthusiast who has personally built boosted engines in excess of 900 crank HP.

BE CAUTIOUS. Understand what you are trying to do before you get started. And most of all... Good Luck!


Steve
06 CSRT8
all stock all original
everything but DVD
waiting for software
 

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stevesrt8 said:
the 6.1 is a completely different motor. different block! different rods! different in so many ways (see Allpar.com for the details) that they are barely even comparable. 6.1 was built to make high HP and be durable doing it. The tranny in SRT8 comes from GERMANY! Can you say AMG? Read and learn the different parts used in boosted motors that make really high HP and last more than a few weekends. Most notable one is LOW COMPRESSION pistons!

Putting any kind of supercharging on either one is a recipe for disaster. No tuning is available so all the fuel enrichment will be "band-aid" style. Neither engine was ever designed for positive manifold pressure. Timing and such cannot be tuned (this is most critical).

Putting boost to a modern high compression engine that was never designed for it is possible, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Note that I truly believe it is your car and you should do whatever you want. I am only trying to give you the benefit of over 30 years as an enthusiast who has personally built boosted engines in excess of 900 crank HP.

BE CAUTIOUS. Understand what you are trying to do before you get started. And most of all... Good Luck!


Steve
06 CSRT8
all stock all original
everything but DVD
waiting for software
This 'ole gearhead couldn't agree with you more, Steve! These powertrains come as a sophisticated, powerful, efficient, computer controlled "tuned" system from the factory.

The SRT-8, in particular, is a pure racing setup, right off the the lot. Without a full ECM programmer, a dyno, and years of experience - hardware mods, are, at best, a shot in the dark, imo.
 

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stevesrt8 said:
Putting any kind of supercharging on either one is a recipe for disaster. No tuning is available so all the fuel enrichment will be "band-aid" style. Neither engine was ever designed for positive manifold pressure. Timing and such cannot be tuned (this is most critical).

Putting boost to a modern high compression engine that was never designed for it is possible, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Note that I truly believe it is your car and you should do whatever you want. I am only trying to give you the benefit of over 30 years as an enthusiast who has personally built boosted engines in excess of 900 crank HP.

BE CAUTIOUS. Understand what you are trying to do before you get started. And most of all... Good Luck!


Steve
06 CSRT8
all stock all original
everything but DVD
waiting for software
I have the 5.7, what would you feel comfortable doing to these engines since not supercharging. Turbo? Nitrous? or just a reprogrammer, intake, exhaust, and headers?
 

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stevesrt8 said:
. No tuning is available so all the fuel enrichment will be "band-aid" style. Neither engine was ever designed for positive manifold pressure. Timing and such cannot be tuned (this is most critical).

Putting boost to a modern high compression engine that was never designed for it is possible, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

BE CAUTIOUS. Understand what you are trying to do before you get started. And most of all... Good Luck!

You wanna put some money on that quote?

As for more durable that wasnt my choice of words. A 12 hour work day I was just typin away. Im pretty sure I wanted to type 6.1 in there but for some reason I didnt. I have no doubts that I can make a safe 500whp with it thought.
 

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OK, here is my two cents. The 6.1 puts out 69.7 HP per liter and the 5.7 puts out 59.6 HP per liter. This is because the 6.1 has been tweaked with high perfromance parts, such as bigger cam, valve springs, more compression, bigger valves, better exhaust etc. In addition, it uses higher quality parts to improve reliability at higher rpms. The 5.7 is a high volume prioduction engine and uses standard parts. No sodium filed valves, forged crank, etc. Since the engines are the same basic design, the 5.7 has the potential to produce similar HP per liter numbers as the 6.1 with proper modification. Since the 5.7 is producing less power realtive to its potential, the gains from modifications will be greater if the engine is modified wisely. This does not mean that a 5.7 will produce more HP than a 6.1 given the same mods, because it won't.
The 6.1 is a premium engine and to get a 5.7 to produce power at the same level with the same reliability would require the same quality of parts.


Phil
 

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JMatt said:
In all honesty, if I already had a 5.7L hemi car, I'd pull the engine and replace it with the new 500HP 6.4L Hemi crate engine Mopar just announced. I think it's around $8,000. Then start modding that if you want to. Total expense is less than trading to an SRT-8, and more reliable than aftermarket turbo/supercharging.

Of course, adding a turbo or supercharger to the 6.4L . . . . :biggrin:
See the above post and remember that it JUST NEVER ENDS! Keep your 5.7 and be happy.
 

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JMatt said:
Actually - the tranny's mostly come from Kokomo, IN. (yes - I'm aware of the origin sticker than said Germany. I still don't understand that).

The rest of your data is dead on.
Sorry, J, but I think your wrong. I know they do build the same trannies there in Kokomo, but for whatever reason, I dont think they are putting them into the SRT-8s. I have yet to see a sticker for any SRT-8s that list US. And I just spent 20 minutes looking at maybe 10 or more stickers, out of 30 SRT-8s on Ebay (a lot dont have clear enough shot of the sticker, but at least 10 did) and not one, Magnum, 300, or Charger, said US.

And I'm pretty sure its a violation of federal law to falsify that sticker. Looks like a great questio for the SRT engineer chat:)
 

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some answers

1 - Jmatt, I verified my trans came from Germany. For real. I was told by SRT development engineer at Track Experience that AMG was heavily involved in both engine and trans development and programming.

2 - Goofball guy, please understand that I fully support you doing anything you want to YOUR car, just quit advising others. Didn't these guys spank you hard enough on the 6.4? And re: my quote, I am absolutely standing by my statement. Thank you for printing it twice!

3 - Toddr/t, I have little to no experience with these powertrains. I am in awe of their technical sophistication and complexity. My recommendation is to talk to a major tuner with happy clients with the same motor as you. I will wait for the programmer from a major firm that will soon be here. Development mules in the 6.1 program were so fast they were detuned for production! I want some software tuning and I promise you scads of HP is in this setup just waiting for some less conservative engine management!

4 - There has been much comment regarding my choice to NOT modify my car. I simply prefer it stock. I researched the car heavily before purchase, waited a long time to get it, and am simply thrilled every time I get in it! I also state for the second time: I fully support anyone's right to modify their cars any way they want. Just be careful and get quality advice before proceeding.


Steve
06 CSRT8
all stock all original
everything but DVD
waiting for software
 

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stevesrt8 said:
2 - Goofball guy, please understand that I fully support you doing anything you want to YOUR car, just quit advising others. Didn't these guys spank you hard enough on the 6.4? And re: my quote, I am absolutely standing by my statement. Thank you for printing it twice!
Hey tell ya what Ill quote ya twice this time too. For one if your going to be hateful at least get the name right. Is it really that hard? Cmon GoofyGuy, your making more work for yourself there. Im sorry you buy a car to keep perfectly stock.

As you havent complained about any telling people about exhaust systems, wheel and tire packages, intakes, hoods, aftermarket headlights, DvD players and so on. I assume your just mad at me because I can make something happen where your narrow mind wont allow it. You have the SRT8 the only fast car on the market and its impossible for anything to be faster. So if I made an exhaust system that would be ok. Have you Email GSM yet to tell them they should stop selling superchargers?

Also when did I recieve a spanking? I dont remember this. You might have remembered it that way but Im pretty sure you guys gave up. Also when did the 6.4 come into this?


Can you say anything positive? If I could afford a SRT8 trust me I would have one. I love the car but I can dont need to spend that much for that kind of power. I dont need racing seats anymore Im over that. Yeah you never commented on the saturn thing again did ya. I think its just you, you cant handle someone with a vision of better things can ya.
 

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stevesrt8 said:
The tranny in SRT8 comes from GERMANY!
Then the transmission for the 300C also comes from Germany, since, as far as I can tell(not counting programming) is the same transmission; same sales code(DGJ).
 

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crossed vision

QUOTE

Also when did I recieve a spanking? I dont remember this. You might have remembered it that way but Im pretty sure you guys gave up. Also when did the 6.4 come into this?

QUOTE

Here's the link for ya! Ahhh, it must be blissful to be unaware!

http://www.300cforums.com/forums/srt-8-general-discussion/12988-392-6-4-hemi-test-mules-running.html

And truly, there is no hate here. No fear, either. Everything I've said is true and verifiable and even supported by other intelligent forum members. Re-read the thread until the end for best results!

Just stop representing yourself as something you are obviously NOT!

Steve
06 CSRT8
all stock all original
everything but DVD
waiting for software
 
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