[OzKen]

Ah, battery threads, goody goody.

We are quite lucky with our cars, in that the battery compartment is actually a decent size. So can fit the correct battery. We don't have to play that stupid game where we have a torch battery squeezed under the bonnet that is the size of a cigarette packet, but is "latest tech/trust us!!!" Truck and 4x4 batteries typically keep the correct acid/casing/plate ratio, that is, "twice the CCA = twice as big physically". Under bonnet batteries don't, and make ridiculous claims. ALL the "wonder CCA's in small packages" I replace last 3 years. Every battery in MY cars are correct ratio (realistic) hence I get 7/8 years out of a battery.

My 2007 V6 had the original factory battery (730/72 A/H when I bought the car. It never let me down, but one day did the dreaded "Ur - RUR" , then started the car, so I replaced it. 2007 car, 2016. So orig was almost 9 years old. That car is still here, that replacement battery is now 7 years old, still ok.

My recently bought 2006 V8 has just had a new battery. Battery in the car started it ok, was a "bit small" for the car, (or for my liking) at 70 A/H, and 640 CCA. It starts the car fine, and load tests perfectly, but is a 2108 battery, so 5 years old. If it were 80 A/H, I would leave it 2 years, but I prefer the full spec, so easier to replace.

Century here recommend a 730 CCA/80 A/H. That is shorter than the holder. I bought a 810CCA, 90 A/H. It is the longest battery that will fit. There is one that is that length and physically HIGHER, and it fits (and has proportional CCA and A/H increase), but that puts terminals hard against boot floor, and I don't like that.

So, basically, our batteries are large and generally observe the rules of physics and have realistic CCA claims versus package size. Because of that "proper ratio" (and also, in boot, run cooler) they usually last a while. As above, my first one 8 years, second one 7 years (still ok) , one in V8 5 years (still ok).

Yours at 7 = probably get another year out of it............................... but is that day you get stranded worth it?

So, you can do 3 things.

1. Ignore and wait. Probably in a year, in might let you down.

2. Buy a load tester for 15 bucks. Regularly load test it, (after fully charging it) and when it drops below about 700 CCA = buy a new one.

3. Accept that 7 years is a good run = buy a new one, have no worries. Get the largest package that will fit, and around 80/90 amp/hours, and approx 750/850 CCA.

BEWARE of "miracle new tech................. gazillion CCA!!!!!" batteries.

I am wary of "new battery tech" as have seen so many come and go. In the mid 80's, the Exide "Torque starter" gel battery was going to "change the automotive world". I had some gel batteries EXPLODE on a boat. They don't handle surges. I was labelled "old fashioned". How DARE electrical techs (who have had a few explode) challenge marketing?

They exploded in cars. They VANISHED from the market, almost bankrupted Exide. They quietly went back to "normal" LA batteries.

Honestly, at the time, our Oberon subs had 448 lead acid battery cells. 224 tons of batteries worth millions. If gel were THAT good, we would have been using them??????

I hope that is of use/interest and helps you decide. If it were me, at that age, I would replace it with a realistic spec battery. As I said, the "snake oil miracles" are usually for the smaller "under bonnet" batteries, ours seem immune so far, but just for info. If something sounds too good to be true, it usually is, and 800cca - 80 A/H in that large package are perfect for our cars.

 

[OzKen]

Freedom of speech. I tried to type Aussie slang for "cigarette" and it deleted/censored it.

 

[OzKen]

Marketing is taking over from professionalism, because "that is where the money is".

As you say, lead acid batteries haven't changed much, and while they rave about "technology" they are really just playing with mods/different tweaks to that. Acid to plate ratio and size/variation in plate perforations/some metallic variation/plate thickness and spacing. The sealed lead acid is just an expansion valve. Arguable that they are "sealed" as the valve has to vent a bit for expansion/heat when charging. But they don't spill, so call them "sealed."

The AGM is just mat within the acid to stop slosh. That's a normal "free surface liquid" technology that battery makers use to "claim another innovation." Foam/mesh filled fuel tanks are/were similar, use a perforated medium instead of baffles/cofferdams.

What annoys me is use of terms that contradict established tech terms/doctrine which is misleading and dangerous. Motorcycle sites sell "sealed lead acid" batteries, but don't call them that. They are now sold as "Dry batteries." Now, for 100 years, there have already been "dry batteries". They are non rechargeable "torch type" batteries. To any elec professional a "dry battery" is the Union carbide old fashioned torch battery. Nup. According to bike battery companies/sales teams = "They don't leak = that makes them "DRY" batteries." To me that is just wrong and dodgy.

But the marketing is backed up by/benefits from people never listening to electricians. After a while you give up when almost everyone counters with "well, the bloke at the shop said....." I mean, why would a SALESMAN lie?????

I had to get off a bike site. Guys can't fix their generators. Try and tell them, they are "Nah, never heard that (elec facts/theory) before/have to keep trying this/what mates reckon/what hasn't worked. "

They are using gel batteries. Gel battery is designed to charge from a mains regulated max 1/2 amp charger. Mostly used on portable appliances like camping lights etc, that is what they are designed for. On the battery itself, it says "Warning!!!!! MAX current 0.6 amp @ 7.2 volts!!!!!!!" So they have a generator that can pump 9 amps into that battery if it is dead flat. FIFTEEN TIMES what the "warning" says................... "but, nah, bloke who sells em reckons......." Only reason the haven't had an explosion is most of their generators are lucky to run at 20% efficiency........... because they "have to/mate reckons."

In the end, you just give up. And marketing celebrate............ and sell more.

 

[OzKen]

I have a 2012 300 luxury and the battery gave up last month. It has 100k miles. Original Mopar I replaced it with a yellow top. It lasted through an alternator failure (recall) and would start the car if I ran it daily but if I didn’t a couple days I had to boost it. Really I don’t believe there is a prescribed battery life some just last longer than others even of the same brand.

That's a really good run, have to be happy with that.

Like I said, many new cars have no room under the bonnet, and have to have the high CCA/too many plates jammed into the small package, and THEN subject it to engine bay heat. Wheras ours can be huge physically, AND in the boot with a fraction of the heat/temp variation that the under bonnet ones get.

Just looking at a battery that is rated at 600 CCA (under bonnet "premium/gold/platinum blah blah) and it is physically a third the size of our 80/90 A/H - 700/800 CCA batteries (the "600 CCA" in a friends Suzuki was a quarter the volume of my 72 CCA original in my 2007 V6) is obvious they work harder. But people with those cars/compact batteries just accept "oh well, 3 years, everyone says...."

I had a mate with a Jag XJS. Against my advice he bought the "highest CCA in the package". 12 month warranty, and it failed after 11 months. Full replacement warranty, so he got a new battery. He reckons that was great, I reckon ridiculous, as while was free, replace in less than a year????

Also, depends on climate and engine. I can imagine the diesel really sucks the guts out of the batteries, first glow plugs and then crank ultra high compression. Then you have the UK and US temp extremes. Here in Oz, hot summers, but mild winters. So we have it easier, get long life from batteries

All in all, our large package batteries give us a pretty good life from them, so pretty lucky.

One more thing, the dealers/marketing.

These days, less and less people know "car stuff". Thank God for this forum. But the internet is alive with ridiculous stuff about cars. Those FB clickbait things about "50 car things..." Written by those with no idea FOR those with no idea. But there is one going around saying "myth number xxx - you can recharge a flat battery".

According to the internet myth buster, if your battery goes flat, you MUST replace it, you CAN'T just recharge it. What the???? And that pops up everywhere. Now, we have all left a glovebox/boot/interior light on and flattened our battery, and had to jump or charge it. It isn't good for the battery, but unless on the way out anyway, recharge, good to go. My line of work before retirement we routinely deployed for 6 months, always come back to almost flat batteries, was a fact of life/part of the job. If they took a charge, normally ok.

But the internet won't hear of it. So how many of these people will have their battery go flat, and then buy a new one for no reason because "internet says I have to." And, of course, battery sellers/dealers going to argue with that? Maybe they started that rumour????

Maybe the dealers have read the same internet post.

 

[OzKen]

My 2011 300C battery finally died in December 2021, think I had about 150,000 miles at the time. Replaced with another Mopar and hope to get many years from it. Never had a vehicle battery to last so long.

Excellent result, can't ask for much better.

As discussed above, our batteries benefit from not being under the bonnet, so no heat, and little size constraint, so can be full volume/correct acid to plate ratio. Also, the size to allow a high A/H rated battery again makes life easier for the battery = longer life. The physics and logic make sense/work.

I had a 69 Jaguar XJ6. Everyone complains that they have trouble with short battery life with them. Jaguar even fitted a fan to the battery case in later (series 2) models, but all that does is circulate furnace hot, under bonnet air, so makes little difference. They are limited to the "N70" standard size battery case, as the engine bay is designed to accommodate the V12 as well as V6, and is located at the rear of the engine bay/against firewall. So any acid spill corrodes against firewall. Great.

Mine was a 6, was never going to be a V12, and no aircon, so I had room/could mount battery at front of engine bay. Made my own holder, fitted a truck battery. I live in Western Australia, and we get 40 deg C summers. I had that car for 5 years and never had a battery problem, while others in similar heat had considerably less battery life.

Physical size/volume matters and so does heat.

 

[OzKen]

And what about those ridicules cars that shut off and back on at every stop. The life of those Batteries has to be cut in half, besides losing your Heat and Air if your stopped for awhile. Most people don't realize they can shut that off.

Yeah, I don't like the idea of that at all. The batteries in those cars have to be larger/higher capacity, and if really start stop, when do they get charged up? Also, starter works harder, and given that on some cars starter very hard to get to........... So starter and battery larger/heavier = more material, higher turnover. I am not a fan.

I spoke to a bloke who had a van for his business, and his is an unusual brand, a Fiat I think. It has that "shut down/restart". He said it is terrible in traffic at roundabouts/busy intersections. He reckons he can't "defeat/turn it off", but he has to overide it somehow. If he sits at a roundabout, sees a gap that he would normally be able to dart into, engine stops without warning, and the delay to start and go misses the gap. At a busy intersection, you could be there all day. So he has to ride accelerator to "keep it going to get immediate response", which defeats the economy idea the feature is there for.

 

[OzKen]

I’ve been getting mixed reviews on the yellow tops , how’s your experience been?

What is a yellow top? Is that just a "specific brand/type" that they identify with a "yellow top" for marketing recognition????

As I said above, if it is a reasonably standard battery, then fine. Again, I would be wary of any unusually high CCA claim. Most "higher than normal for that size package" cram more plates in and that changes the optimum plate to acid ratio.

I mean, batteries in the size that fits our battery holder are typically 800 CCA and 80 to 90 A/H. How much do you need.

As said above, EVERY battery I have ever had experience with that had a "higher than usual CCA for that size package" failed earlier than "normal" CCA ones, without exception. But people often don't complain, because they have been conditioned to it, so "Yeah, is ok, everyone I know gets 3 years, normal..." Like I said, that is for the tiny ones they shoe horn into engine bays.

There have been lots of "new battery ideas that will revolutionise......." that were failures. Here, a family friend worked for GMH his whole life. He started as an apprentice mechanic, and finished up as a travelling warranty assessor. He said the BIGGEST PR hassle GM had was with a "wizz bang/make ridiculous claims" battery they sold as a feature. The battery had a separate "reserve section" activated by a button on it. The idea was you could have the battery go flat (leave lights on etc), open the bonnet, access the "standby" part of the battery, start the car, and (of course) then recharge the "normal" part of the battery. They ALL failed within 12 months, and GM had to recall ALL new cars that had them. The problem was, they made a big deal about "all new Commodores having them", and the recall was "give you a standard everyday battery in return. These batteries were 3 times the price of a "normal" one, and so many customers couldn't see how them buying a car new and "paying for a wizz bang battery" and "getting a normal one worth a third as much". It was a PR disaster.

Same with the Exide "torque starter". It was going to change the world. Exide were going to stop all normal lead acid batteries, replace all with the torque starter, which was a gel battery. I had had gel batteries explode on boat radios/they had to be removed, as as soon as boat started, alternator higher voltage was more than the batteries could handle. I asked the rep who was doing a presentation, how do these gel batteries handle surge/too much current. He said "The car voltage regulator does that." I said, "No, that handles VOLTAGE, if a car flattens the battery and you jump start it, it will pump 55 amps into the battery when it starts......." (max alt current at that time). His answer was "Well, that doesn't happen every often....................." Those batteries were sold EVERYWHERE............ then............. a few exploded. They vanished without a trace. Good luck finding ANY reference to them, as all that is just GONE apart from one torque starter ad I saw ages ago.

Don't get me wrong, there are amazing advances made in other battery technologies in Gel and Lithium ion etc etc, otherwise we would not have electric cars. BUT they are very carefully managed re charging and drain. Even a cordless drill has SO MUCH electronics to "manage" the battery.

Our cars alternators are not optimised to charge the battery, they are optimised to provide 13.5 to 14 or so volts to run the cars systems. They do not regulate how much current goes into the battery, and that current when charging will be purely dictated by how depleted the battery is. If your battery is half flat (or completely flat and jump start) you suddenly have 14 volts and an alternator that can provide 150 or so amps. 20 or 30 amps of that will "go to run the car" but into a completely flat battery, it will pump 100 amps into the battery initially. ANY charge reduces that (is an exponential curve), and after a few minutes will drop to about 50 amps. Ok, so some newer cars now have the temp/current sensor on the neg terminal to try and regulate it a bit. But many of our cars DON'T.

But the point is, other battery technologies have processors to regulate battery charge/drain VERY specifically. A car alternator that provides 13.5 to just above 14 volts and the current that can be drawn by a battery at a range of discharge............................. you NEED the flexibility that lead acid provides.

They can window dress with "plate fluted construction/surface area" and "AGM" (matt to stop slosh) and "sealed" to stop evaporation................. but at the end of the day, it is a "Plates in acid battery" with some tweaks.

Choose the correct plate to acid ratio = it will last longer.

 

[OzKen]

Only ad I could find. They did one where an Army guy shoots it with an SLR (standard issue weapon at the time). Blows the back out of it, then they started a car with it.

At the time they won so many design awards and billed as "the future", obviously based on tech/concept/innovation. But actual reality and use by the general public = completely different story.

Gel battery and a complete failure for cars, cost them millions.

Hence I am wary of any "great new discovery" until proven in service.