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Discussion Starter #1
OK...just got my wheels and the car isn't stopping well.
I was preparing to buy a BBK but now I'm more confused than ever.
I was working with Baer but that seemed to have fell through.

Does anyone on here have any experience with BBK's for the 300???
Brembo...StopTech...WillWood...Rotra???
 

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Clean300 said:
OK...just got my wheels and the car isn't stopping well.
I was preparing to buy a BBK but now I'm more confused than ever.
I was working with Baer but that seemed to have fell through.

Does anyone on here have any experience with BBK's for the 300???
Brembo...StopTech...WillWood...Rotra???
One of our vendors is Zeckhausen Racing. Dave is the owner. He will be able to answer all of your BBK questions and needs.


Go to his site and e-mail him from there. He will read them there faster, during working hours.

http://www.zeckhausen.com/
 

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Clean300 said:
OK...just got my wheels and the car isn't stopping well.
I was preparing to buy a BBK but now I'm more confused than ever.
I was working with Baer but that seemed to have fell through.

Does anyone on here have any experience with BBK's for the 300???
Brembo...StopTech...WillWood...Rotra???

We have installed all of the major brands and they are all very good, We are recommending Stop Tech


I have attached a picture of the stop techs installed with kw suspension


Scott
GS Motorsports
 

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Discussion Starter #4
GSM said:
We have installed all of the major brands and they are all very good, We are recommending Stop Tech


I have attached a picture of the stop techs installed with kw suspension


Scott
GS Motorsports
Sweet...those look hott!!!!
I assume the installations are all pretty much the same.
What made you choose the ST's over any of the others.
You said you've done all the major brands...can I get a comparrasson???

I e-mailed Dave @ Zeckhausen. I'll also wait for his reply.
It looks like he sells Brembo and ST...he should be a good reference.

It's $1000 more for Brembo's 4 wheel set up.
I may just do front only to start.
 

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Clean300 said:
Sweet...those look hott!!!!
I assume the installations are all pretty much the same.
What made you choose the ST's over any of the others.
You said you've done all the major brands...can I get a comparrasson???

I e-mailed Dave @ Zeckhausen. I'll also wait for his reply.
It looks like he sells Brembo and ST...he should be a good reference.

It's $1000 more for Brembo's 4 wheel set up.
I may just do front only to start.
I installed the StopTech front kit (the very first one) on my own 2005 300C in late 2004. When the rear kit became available, I put that on too. There was an initial delay due to an unusual brake line fitting, but that was eventually worked out. Mine was the first 300C (other than StopTech's test vehicle) to get this set-up.

The difference in performance between the stock 300C brakes and the StopTech 4-piston brakes was amazing. The pedal feel became much more firm, pedal travel was reduced, and the brakes were more linear and easy to modulate than the stock brakes. It was also one of the easiest brake kits to install, requiring no modifications to the factory dust shields and fitting perfectly behind the stock 18" 300C wheels. Here are the installation manuals, if you're curious what you (or your installer) are in for:

Front: http://8.7.96.35/tech_info/manuals_...lation Manual_98-241-1470_Rev. B_04-01-05.pdf

Rear: http://8.7.96.35/tech_info/manuals_...lation Manual_98-241-1471_Rev. B_04-01-05.pdf

I used Magnum RT wheels for my summer tires, and the brakes fit behind those too:



If you aren't sure they will clear the spokes of your aftermarket wheels, you can print out the StopTech wheel fitment chart and test your wheels. The same chart (on this platform) is used for front and back brakes.

Wheel fitment chart: http://stoptech.com/tech_info/charts/98-241-2470-00.pdf

Instructions for using chart: http://stoptech.com/tech_info/wheel_fitment.shtml

After 15 months, I traded that car in for a new SRT8 and, before handing the car over, swapped back to the stock brakes. It was dramatic (and awful) going back to the stock brakes after getting used to the StopTechs. You get used to everything (more horsepower, better brakes, better suspension), so I was glad I had a brief chance to drive the car in stock condition one last time to cement, in my mind, the difference between stock and StopTech.

A 4-wheel StopTech kit is on the way for my new SRT8, although this car is harder to justify upgrading on the basis of performance, since the factory Brembos work very well. I'm just looking forward to not having to deal with scored rotors and masssive brake dust, two of the well known problems with the stock set-up. The StopTech SRT8 kit comes with Hawk Performance Ceramic pads, so it's virtually dust free.



Last summer, we installed the very first copy of StopTech's massive 6-piston brakes on our SEMA project car, which went on to be featured on the cover of SuperRod Magazine and several European magazines.






From a performance standpoint, the front-only upgrade will give you most of the benefit of the 4-wheel kit. After all, the vast majority of the braking is done by the front system. However, the addition of the rear kit will help remove more of the compliance from the stock system, resulting in an even firmer, better feeling brake pedal. And there's the aesthetic component to consider. If you get only the front brakes, you probably want to avoid red calipers, since it will be obvious that you've only done your front brakes. Depending on your wheel's finish, I would suggest black or silver calipers if you are only going to upgrade the front.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the response.
I am already sold on a brake upgrade, that's for sure.
Just not sure which one.

I was more looking for a comaprrason of say... ST vs. Brembo vs. WillWood.
Pro's and con's of each system. Maybe a real world example from someone who has driven or installed both or all three.

I just get too many mixed reviews...the guys with Brembo, LOVE Brembo.
The guys with ST, LOVE ST. Nobody likes WillWood.

I'm assuming that you (zeckhausen) are more in favor of the ST since you run it on your own car.
Any particular reason???
 

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Clean300 said:
Thanks for the response.
I am already sold on a brake upgrade, that's for sure.
Just not sure which one.

I was more looking for a comaprrason of say... ST vs. Brembo vs. WillWood.
Pro's and con's of each system. Maybe a real world example from someone who has driven or installed both or all three.

I just get too many mixed reviews...the guys with Brembo, LOVE Brembo.
The guys with ST, LOVE ST. Nobody likes WillWood.

I'm assuming that you (zeckhausen) are more in favor of the ST since you run it on your own car.
Any particular reason???
The best solution fit depends on the platform. For some platforms (e.g., BMW X5), I prefer Brembo. StopTech doesn't have coverage on many older American models, and that's where I tend to go for Baer Racing. For the 300C/Magnum RT/Charger platform, the StopTech kit is the only one that fits the stock 18" wheels. And, it is more aesthetically pleasing, since the rear kit uses the same 355x32mm rotors as the front and the caliper is the same size (albeit with smaller pistons), wheras the Brembo rear kit is much smaller than the front kit. Since I wanted to keep my stock 18" 300C wheels for winter and the stock 18" Magnum RT wheels for summer, I was constrained in my selection. If you race and go through consumables (pads, rotors, etc.) at a regular rate, StopTech is far more economical:

StopTech consumables: http://www.zeckhausen.com/StopTech/consumables.htm
Brembo consumables: http://www.zeckhausen.com/Brembo/Consumables.htm

For the typical street-only user, the consumable cost is less important, since pads can last 50,000 miles or more and rotors can last nearly the life of the car.

As part of the development of their front and 4-wheel brake kits, StopTech conducted extensive testing of this platform. They measured stopping distances on the stock brakes to obtain a baseline, then they measured stopping distances with front and 4-wheel big brake kits installed. These tests were conducted on the same car, same day, same test driver and at the same track. The stock Continental ContiTouring Contact tires were used.

Ten stops each were performed from 60mph, 80mph, and 100mph. Each stop was measured with a stationary radar gun, feeding data into a laptop. Accuracy of the test fixture has been confirmed to less than 2 tenths of an inch.

The average stopping distance for each of the three speeds is:

60-0 mph
  • Stock: 124.50 feet
  • StopTech front brake kit: 121.77 feet
  • StopTech 4-wheel kit: 120.44 feet (4.06 feet better than stock)
80-0 mph
  • Stock: 221.57 feet
  • StopTech front brake kit: 214.22 feet
  • StopTech 4-wheel kit: 211.07 feet (10.5 feet better than stock)
100-0 mph
  • Stock: 343.90 feet
  • StopTech front brake kit: 337.56 feet
  • StopTech 4-wheel kit: 327.16 feet (16.74 feet better than stock)

For more details on the test methodology, you can check out my write-up at: http://www.zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm

This sort of optimization for every individual application is simply not done by other BBK manufacturers. StopTech uses appropriate caliper piston sizing to make a kit that has the optimum front/rear balance to minimize stopping distance and preserve the stock brake torque reaction to keep ABS and stability control systems happy. For any 4-piston caliper, they can choose from piston sizes of 28, 30, 34, 36, 38, 40, 42, or 44mm.

Here are some shots from my installation:


Stock left front brakes

Stock front 2-piston calipers weigh 12.2 pounds each and stock 1-piece 345x28mm rotors weigh 23 pounds each.


StopTech right rear brakes (with optional zinc plating for snow country) I dont' have a shot of the left front - sorry!

The StopTech 4-piston calipers weigh 8 pounds each and the floating 355x32mm rotors weigh just 17 pounds.



Comparison of StopTech rotor to stock rear rotor
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Do they make the 6-piston set up for the regular 300C...or only the SRT8???

If I go 4-piston... I'll probably buy Brembo.
I know the replacement discs and pads are a little more expensive but I was told they last about 3 times as long.

I do like that 6-piston kit though...and that new slotted disc is really trick...much cleaner looking than their old discs.

Desicions, decisions.
I just guess if I'm spending this much I might as well get exactly what I want.

Dave...you're the expert...do you know the piston diameters between Brembo and StopTech???
 

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Clean300 said:
Do they make the 6-piston set up for the regular 300C...or only the SRT8???
The 6-piston kit is only available for the SRT8.

The reason you would want the 6-piston kit vs the 4-piston is for increased longevity of the pads during endurance racing. The 6-piston caliper uses a much larger pad than the 4-piston, thus the pad runs cooler and lasts longer. There is no other performance advantage of the 6-piston over the 4-piston. StopTech uses 6 smaller pistons (on kits where both types of calipers are available) to maintain the same brake torque. I've seen other vendors try to take advantage of customers' lack of knowledge about brakes to make claims like "more pistons equals more braking power!" Such claims are meaningless. More pistons are used when the pad is larger and you need to distribute the clamping force evenly over the backing plate.

If I go 4-piston... I'll probably buy Brembo.
I know the replacement discs and pads are a little more expensive but I was told they last about 3 times as long.
You were told wrong. If we compare the front systems, they both use 355x32mm rotors available in either drilled or slotted. The Brembo rotors only allow 1mm of wear before they must be discarded and replaced. The StopTech rotors allow 2 millimeters. Furthermore, the StopTech internal vane design flows more air than the Brembo vanes, thus reducing heat during racing conditions and making the rotors last longer still. So, if you follow the manufacturer's rotor replacement recommendations, you typically use two sets of Brembo rotors for each set of StopTech rotors. A front rotor change is going to cost $908 for Brembo and $490 (slotted) or $610 (drilled) for StopTech

I do like that 6-piston kit though...and that new slotted disc is really trick...much cleaner looking than their old discs.
Slotted or drilled rotors are available with either kit.
Desicions, decisions.
I just guess if I'm spending this much I might as well get exactly what I want.

Dave...you're the expert...do you know the piston diameters between Brembo and StopTech???
Yes, the StopTech uses 38/44mm pistons in front and 28/28mm pistons in back. Brembo uses the standard F50 front calipers with 40/44mm in front and the Lotus rear calipers with 30/32mm pistons in back.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
OK...now this is the type of onformation I was looking for.
Brembo and StopTech are both very hard to get ahold of for technical information. I'm really glad that you are more accessable.

I got the rotor information through one of the Brembo engineers I met at the race track. They said the same thing about the minimum thickness but that the ST discs were softer and wore faster. He spoke about different pad compounds and co-efficients of frictions and blah blah blah. But he was pretty firm on the fact that the Brembo discs are the best quality available and that the wear rate of 2mm vs. 1mm made no difference in that fact.

I want to order somthing soon. I'll e-mail you for prices. How long does it take to order a kit and have it shipped out west???
 

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Clean300 said:
I want to order somthing soon. I'll e-mail you for prices. How long does it take to order a kit and have it shipped out west???
Ordering instructions are here: http://www.zeckhausen.com/how_to_order.htm

Brembo kits can usually be shipped within 24 hours of the order being placed. Sometimes the same day, if you order before the daily UPS pick-up. Red, black, or silver calipers available. Custom colors take a couple of weeks and add $300 per caliper pair ($600 for a 4-wheel kit). Custom colors are not advised if you plan to take your car to the track for club racing, open track days, or high speed driving schools. These colors can shift under heavy track conditions. If you're a track junkie, then black is best, followed closely by red. Silver calipers tend to take on a goldish hue after heavy track use. None of these colors will have any problem with street, drag racing, or autocross use.

StopTech kits are made to order. I just happen to have all the parts in stock for a 300C kit with red calipers. You would need to specify rotor choice (drilled or slotted) and it would ship out by the end of next week. Black calipers would take a couple of weeks, silver calipers 30 days.
 
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