Black Boxes. Big Brother?

SRT8itchy said:

arnoldw - My apologies. My car is on order so I haven't seen a manual for a 300. Does the manual state all the info that can be collected, how and by whom? I'm glad the info is now included, but the boxes have been around, to some degree, for about a decade. I don't think most people have any idea what can be retreived.

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Here's what it says:

iam f****ing apalled...i cant believe iam reading this!WTF!!............man someone tell me this is a joke...PLEASE....is this black box in the srt also?...iam still sitting here shaking my head.holy crap if that aint a invasion of our privacy... where do i sign.hell i would almost not buy the car if i knew that the next vech. wouldnt have the blk box but i bet they all have them..someone needs to figure a way to hack this..

ps..i have this little story i was a over the road truck driver and all the semi's had not only black boxes but the blk bxs also controlled your top speed and how we used to bypass the comp we would find the wire that came from the blk box that controlled speed.."white wire" and we would have a pin with a wire wrapped around it and we would stabb the wire. and then we used a trailer light that you would buy from a truck stop.then you would take the wire that was wrapped around the pin and hook it to one of the wires from the light and the other wire that comes from the light gets grounded..well final outcome the the light would light up and the truck would go as fast as you wanted. it bypassed it some how and then when we would get to the terminal we just unplug the pin from the wire. undo the ground clamp and i dont think that it registered because they never said anything about doing 90mph through texas which is mostly flat so they know your not rolln down a hill or something..but maybe this will help someone bypass the box the same way..just need some one to figure which is the speed wire and if you can do the same technique...herbs

Another good Article

Privacy Experts Shun Black Boxes
By Kelley Beaucar Vlahos

•NTSB Wants Black Boxes in Passenger Vehicles•Evidence From Black Boxes in Cars Turns Up in Courts
WASHINGTON — Some safety and privacy experts are reacting with apprehension, others with all out condemnation over a recent ruling by the National Transportation Safety Board (search) to require electronic data recorders or "black boxes" in all new cars manufactured in the United States.

"I take offense that this personal property of individuals is now being designed by the federal government," said Jim Harper, privacy attorney and editor of Privacilla.org.

Black boxes (search), or "EDRs" have been fitted into every General Motors car in its 2004 line and is in a number of Ford models — about 15 percent of all vehicles on the road today, according to road safety experts.

EDRs are certainly not new. Information gathered on black boxes — typically everything from speed, brake pressure, seat belt use and air bag deployment — has already been used in determining guilt in criminal and civil cases across the country.

Proponents, including the NTSB and road safety advocates, say the data collected on these black boxes is valuable for studying how accidents happen and how to make roads and cars safer. EDR data has been used for years to fine tune air bag efficiency.


"We think for understanding the dynamics of crashes, the information here can be very, very helpful," said Lon Anderson, director of AAA Mid-Atlantic (search). On the other hand, Anderson said, "We think it would be very wrong if the data in these boxes was deemed to be public information, open to anybody and the owner had no say over it."

The NTSB recommended in early August that black boxes be mandated, but critics say dealers are not now required to alert car owners that their car has the ability to collect the information. Currently only California has a law requiring car dealers to notify buyers when their cars are outfitted with an EDR.

Owners also have no legal protections to keep them from being forced to hand over that information to another party if a court order demanded it.

"I think (owners) have to be told of whatever data there is — and what is being retained longterm. What are the storage conditions? Will they keep it confidential or will they have to release information to anybody?" said professor John Soma, director of the Privacy Center (search) at Denver University.

"Without all of these concerns written into it, then obviously the recommendation is completely unacceptable," he said.

According to Joe Osterman, director of highway safety at the NTSB, the recommendation was inspired in part by a tragic auto accident involving a 86-year-old man who drove his car into a crowded Santa Monica farmers’ market last summer, killing 10 and injuring 63.

Osterman said a black box in the car might have not saved the people in the crash, but would have allowed investigators to find out how it happened and how cars could be better designed to reduce the likelihood of greater injury in the future.

"We have a long history of using data recorders in other modes of transportation and found them extremely useful," Osterman told FOXNews.com, pointing to aircraft. "Unless we have all vehicles equipped, you will not have a true picture of what is happening on the highways, in a broader sense."

Phil Haseline, president of the Automobile Coalition for Traffic Safety (search), which represents car manufacturers, said automakers are still debating the value of EDRs, and the idea of requiring them. Haseline said he is a proponent of black boxes but has certain reservations about the NTSB’s recommendation.

He, like others, said he would like to first see standardization of the type of data collected in the black boxes, much like a recommendation made in June by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (search). Right now, dueling technologies record different things.

Then, Haseline said, he would prefer that laws address the issue of a car owner’s knowledge of the EDRs in their vehicles, and that car owners have ownership of the data once its recorded.

"I can understand [NTSB's desire] to have this information, but from a practical perspective, it is premature at this point to require it," he said.

While privacy experts say jokes like "'big brother' is riding shotgun" aren’t funny, the technology already is being used to monitor certain drivers.

Global positioning systems are being used by car rental companies to track where renters are going and how fast they are driving. GPS also allows rental car companies to shut off the engine of a car and lock a renter out of it. It’s the same technology used by OnStar, which promises to be a guardian angel for car owners who are locked out or report a vehicle stolen.

Parents of teenagers have also begun to use black boxes marketed by Road Safety International (search) in Thousand Oaks, Calif. This item, which can be placed under the hood, is able to track the driver’s use of a seatbelt, excessive speed, hard cornering, braking and even unsafe backing, and can store hours of information for review later.

Privacy experts warn that once cars are outfitted for the most limited data recording, the government will find a way to argue it’s for drivers’ "own good" to collect more. They point to a push in recent years to install GPS in all cars so that emergency officials can easily find incapacitated accident victims.

"When you are telling someone it is for their own good, then it should be their own choice, they should be able to say ‘no,’" said professor Yale Kamisar of the University of Michigan Law School. "None of these things work out the way they are supposed to. Why should we believe all of these assurances when they haven’t been honored in the past?"

Thinking Outside the Black Box
by Jim Harper

Jim Harper is director of information policy studies at the Cato Institute

New cars offer a delightful array of information and services: satellite radio, intelligent cruise control, braking and steering assistance, navigation systems, and roadside assistance, to name a few. These all appeal to drivers' desire for safety, convenience, and comfort.

But a troublesome feature of most new cars is the Event Data Recorder ("EDR"), or Black Box. As in commercial airplanes, the automobile Black Box keeps a running record of how a car is being operated, including speed, acceleration, braking, steering, and seat belt use.

When there is an "event" - usually a crash - the EDR moves the last several seconds of information into long-term storage for later downloading. Well over half of the 2004 model passenger cars and light vehicles have some recording capability of this type.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has proposed standards for the data collected by EDRs, but the agency emphasized in a recent notice that it is not mandating Black Boxes. It will be under pressure to do so. The National Transportation Safety Board has listed Black Boxes as one of its "most wanted" measures.

There are obvious safety benefits if auto accidents can be dissected in detail, of course. Auto manufacturers, safety groups, and insurers want this information. Police departments want it too.

Already, prosecutors are using information from automobile Black Boxes as evidence against drivers. Last year, one Robert Christmann was convicted in a New York traffic fatality based upon information downloaded from his car's Black Box.

But car manufacturers aren't touting the safety benefits of the Black Box like they do so many other improvements on the modern automobile. That is because the Black Box is not a safety feature; it is a surveillance tool -- and when drivers learn about it, they are none too happy.

After I commented on Black Boxes in a news story earlier this year, letters poured into my e-mail box. "This is `over the top,' and a definite infringement on my privacy," said one outraged car owner. Another wrote, "[T]his is a personal vehicle, I've paid for it, paid my taxes, enough said." From another, simply: "Not on my car."

Many correspondents wanted to know which cars have Black Boxes so they can determine whether their personal vehicles were, in effect, spying on them.

There are a number of directions in which this technology is likely to go. It could collect and retain more information for longer periods. It could interact with Global Positioning Systems (GPS) to record where a car has traveled. And it could combine with communications systems to signal authorities in real time.

Joan Borucki, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's nominee to head California's Department of Motor Vehicles, has proposed a mileage tax that Black Boxes could administer. The Oregon Department of Transportation has also considered a mileage tax.

In 2001, a Connecticut car rental company began charging renters a $150 fine for speeding in their rental cars, using a GPS-equipped monitoring system. Consumers can shun companies which make this a practice. But they could not refuse an automatically-issued traffic citation if governments were to add Black-Box-citation revenue to what they now get from red-light cameras.

Legislation passed by the state of California is likely a sign where things are headed. The state requires notices in the owner's manuals of cars that have Black Boxes. The new law also allows data to be accessed under court order, for research, and for other reasons. California's EDR law replaced consumer choice with an agreement among politicians, bureaucrats, and industry on a nice low level of protection for consumers.

There is no question that aggregated EDR data can provide important safety benefits. If traffic accidents and deaths can be averted by improving automobile safety, these safety advances should be pursued. But they should be pursued in a way that unites the interests of drivers with the interests of the community.

Insurers should offer car owners discounts if their EDR-equipped cars reveal good driving habits and freedom from blame in accidents. Consumers, not the government, should decide if they want their cars to collect such data, and if they want to share it with others.