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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I wonder why the Eibachs offer more of an adjustable height range (1.6-2.8"front, 1.2-2.0"rear). If I remember correctly, the KW only goes to 2" front and back.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
fatchance said:
I'm not sure if you need more range. For those who have seen my car it's pretty low. Vicors car from VIP Edition is all the way down and the wheels are tucked front and rear. His car makes mine look like a 4x4.
Is Victors the blue VIP I've seen? He has the KWs all the way down?....If so, DAMN thats low! Yours is even hella low.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
fatchance said:
That's Victors the blue 300c. Either way you go, you can't go wrong. Coilovers are the way to go.
Yea, I'm just kinda dissapointed that I already bought the Eibachs.....Hopefully I'll be able to sell them to a member to help offset at least the install price.....
 

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I have been researching the spring/damper issue for the LX Hemis. Here are a few thoughts:

The stock setup has been carefully tuned by DCX to deliver a smooth ride while giving good handling and braking stability for a 4 door sedan. The stock setup easily outclasses everything in the car's price range.

Modifying springs without tuning dampers will change the stock ride and handling characteristics. Many owners who have lowered by spring replacements report some negative results.

The most effective way to modify a suspension for a large RWD such as the LX platform is to go with fully adjustable coilovers in matched sets of 4. This gives you a wide range of settings for vehicle height and damping.

The cost associated with coilovers is worth it as opposed to replacing all springs and shocks separately.

The KW's seem to perform quite well. Mopar has released a part number for their coilovers but no price as of yet.

I am going to wait and see what Mopar come out with and then decide between them and KW.
 

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Northern Rider said:
I have been researching the spring/damper issue for the LX Hemis. Here are a few thoughts:

The stock setup has been carefully tuned by DCX to deliver a smooth ride while giving good handling and braking stability for a 4 door sedan. The stock setup easily outclasses everything in the car's price range.

Modifying springs without tuning dampers will change the stock ride and handling characteristics. Many owners who have lowered by spring replacements report some negative results....
I was considering coilovers too, but of course the deal I got on the Hotchkis springs and sway bars was too good to pass up! :wink1:
So NR, I have asserted that the larger sway bars, in conjunction with my springs, has made the difference and is the reason I don't have the complaints that some have had with springs alone... correct assessment, or do you think it's really just a matter of time?
 

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HEMEEE said:
I was considering coilovers too, but of course the deal I got on the Hotchkis springs and sway bars was too good to pass up! :wink1:
So NR, I have asserted that the larger sway bars, in conjunction with my springs, has made the difference and is the reason I don't have the complaints that some have had with springs alone... correct assessment, or do you think it's really just a matter of time?
I think your assessment is correct. Hotchkis are suspension system tuners with a long tradition of great performance upgrades.

Once you lower and firm up spring rates, the limits of the OEM sways become really noticeable.

If I go coilovers, I will also add the Hotchkis swaybar set.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
HEMEEE said:
I was considering coilovers too, but of course the deal I got on the Hotchkis springs and sway bars was too good to pass up! :wink1:
So NR, I have asserted that the larger sway bars, in conjunction with my springs, has made the difference and is the reason I don't have the complaints that some have had with springs alone... correct assessment, or do you think it's really just a matter of time?
Let me start by saying that I am by no means an expert whatsoever (actaully more of a novice). NR is probably right, but my opinion is that it is a matter of time.....When I first put on the eibachs, I actually liked the ride quality. It wasn't until about 6 or 7 months later that the ride quality started deteriorating. I think that unless you swap out the shocks also, its only a matter of time - that's why Santas buying me coilovers for Christmas :biggrin:

Just my 2 cents.....
 

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mikew2069 said:
Let me start by saying that I am by no means an expert whatsoever (actaully more of a novice). NR is probably right, but my opinion is that it is a matter of time.....When I first put on the eibachs, I actually liked the ride quality. It wasn't until about 6 or 7 months later that the ride quality started deteriorating. I think that unless you swap out the shocks also, its only a matter of time - that's why Santas buying me coilovers for Christmas :biggrin:

Just my 2 cents.....
I've already had mine 1/2 that time with no issues, however in this case it would be more useful to know the mileage you incurred rather than length of time. My understanding is that the larger sway bars minimize most of the added strain the stiffer springs cause on the shocks. As NR indicated, Hotchkis Performance is long well-known for their expertise in suspension and I'm not sure if you realize it, but my car was the research & development test car for their 300 suspension kit. But then again, you may be right... I guess time will tell :wink1:

Congrats on the Christmas coilovers!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
HEMEEE said:
I've already had mine 1/2 that time with no issues, however in this case it would be more useful to know the mileage you incurred rather than length of time. My understanding is that the larger sway bars minimize most of the added strain the stiffer springs cause on the shocks. As NR indicated, Hotchkis Performance is long well-known for their expertise in suspension and I'm not sure if you realize it, but my car was the research & development test car for their 300 suspension kit. But then again, you may be right... I guess time will tell :wink1:

Congrats on the Christmas coilovers!
Yes, I knew that your C was the R&D C(you lucky dog).....I've had my eibachs on for just about 10k miles now. I was not aware that the sway bars minimized the wear on the shocks caused by the stiff springs (I told you I was a novice)..I wish I would have known that b/c I would have put the sway bars on already.

I guess Santa's got his work cut out for me this year :wink1:
 

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mikew2069 said:
Yes, I knew that your C was the R&D C(you lucky dog).....I've had my eibachs on for just about 10k miles now. I was not aware that the sway bars minimized the wear on the shocks caused by the stiff springs (I told you I was a novice)..I wish I would have known that b/c I would have put the sway bars on already.

I guess Santa's got his work cut out for me this year :wink1:
Thanks Mike, I'm no expert either and wasn't sharing "fact", but my understanding of what I've learned, that's why I threw it out there... I want to know! It would be great to have 'zilla chime in here... Anyway, I probably misspoke when I said "most" strain and should have said "some", but under the circumstances, I'm afraid I won't be a good test case as I don't even have 10k on my car in it's 17mos. old life. I'll be watching for that 10k mark since the install and will try to remember to report back. My Hotchkis setup was installed 3mos. ago and I have less than 1k miles since then so nobody should hold their breath! :silly:

Give my regards to Santa, and remind him I'd like wheels & tires for Christmas will ya! In case he asks, I can never remember if I'm supposed to be naughty or nice, so I try to be both...
 

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HEMEEE said:
Thanks Mike, I'm no expert either and wasn't sharing "fact", but my understanding of what I've learned, that's why I threw it out there... I want to know! It would be great to have 'zilla chime in here... Anyway, I probably misspoke when I said "most" strain and should have said "some", but under the circumstances, I'm afraid I won't be a good test case as I don't even have 10k on my car in it's 17mos. old life. I'll be watching for that 10k mark since the install and will try to remember to report back. My Hotchkis setup was installed 3mos. ago and I have less than 1k miles since then so nobody should hold their breath! :silly:

Give my regards to Santa, and remind him I'd like wheels & tires for Christmas will ya! In case he asks, I can never remember if I'm supposed to be naughty or nice, so I try to be both...
Thanks Hemeee

I've been just watching the thread develop, and nobody has been way off track so far.

As some of you know; I have an SRT8 and used to own high performance accessory shops, and national shock absorber distributorship.

With upgraded sway bars the suspension movement will be more controlled by the bar, and the shocks will not have to work as hard and should last a bit longer. The stock 300c Sachs shocks are at best a compromise, and a good one until you change something that overstresses them, and when stressed harder they will suffer from reduced life, and significant quick deterioration in performance.

At the moment my SRT8 has the factory standard package of upgraded (over 300c) shocks - Bilstein front, Sachs Nivomat rear, factory lowered springs, and larger diameter sway bars. This package - in conjuction with the grippier 20" rubber - adds significantly to the cornering power and control.

I have now owned the SRT8 long enough to give a fair and unbiased (no financial gain) assessment. I see some areas for improvement in the SRT8 setup. (I'll come to the 300c in a moment).

  • The combination of Bilstein front shocks and stock springs transfers a fair amount of unwanted road bump noise, and impact feel to the driver. With the KW type the multirate front spring: combining a small softer spring - which absorbs much of the initial bump, with a larger stiffer main spring, in and a low gas pressure shock, (as opposed to the high pressure Bilstein, that transfers more of the initial bump impact to the driver), is the best current solution ride height cornering/slalom and ride, smoothness adjustability.
  • The rear shocks on the SRT8 are the Nivomats with the built in pump- self-levelling. I have noticed that in the first few miles - before the shocks pump themselves to optimum function, that they do a poor job. For those using the drag strip that could have consequencies. Adjusted correctly, shocks like the KWs could give benefit in controlled weight transfer on acceleration. Probably cause enough for another thread altogether for the drag strip afficionados.
  • Watching some videos of the stock SRT8 where guys are performing slalom type work; with lots of transitions, and side to side weight transfers. I judged that even the SRT8 bar is not large enough for optimum street performance. Upgrading the bar diameter: a small step in diameter will add significant control to the rear, when cornering/transitioning, without losing much of the comfort factor.

The adjustable stiffness of shock in the KW/Eibach/and now probably Mopar shocks is a massive bonus factor. Where you can arrive at your own optimum balance between shock stiffness/control and ride smoothness. There is a wide range of temperature variability in North America. Enormous variation summer in Texas, winter in Canada. Just being able to adjust for the effect this temperature has on the shock fluid viscosity, and consequent variations in damping rate/shock stiffness, in the same product is an important feature.
The adjustable ride height is a self explanatory, if (probably when) I go for the KW Variant II coilovers or exact equivalent, I will probably stick with the standard SRT8 front ride height and lower the rear a little more.

Now back to the 300c suspension - the standard shocks will soon wear themselves out with just upgraded springs. They are (like most high volume stock sedans) a prime target for upgrade anyway - thats why AMGs come stock with Bilsteins, and Ferraris with Konis. KWs are probably stock on some high performance cars.

I am thinking of pumping a couple of thousand dollars into suspension upgrades in my SRT8 - which already has a significantly upgraded (over the 300c) factory suspension. The same upgrade of KW VariantII on the 300c - and the Eibachs and Mopars: if they are confimed to be rebranded KWvariantIIs, will put the 300c owner (with lightweight 20"' forged wheels, the Goodyear F1 or RSA tires, and uprated swaybars) at least in SRT8 cornering/slalom ability, and probably a jump ahead of it. Bear in mind the suspension bushings are softer on the 300c, but that should not be a massive detraction.

So Hemeee a question for you - do you have the diameter of the rear Hotchkis sway bar? If you don't I can call them. I can then measure my SRT8 rear bar and hope that the Hotchkis rear is a step up in diameter.

Zilla
 
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