front door speakers
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Upgrade the speakers first.
I disagree on the amp first. In order to have a great system you need clearity first. If you don't, then your just goin' "getto." So many people start off with the amp and run the stock speakers to it's limit resulting in distortion.
IMHO:
Step 1. Upgrade your stocks to high quality speakers, something that'll handle you max wattage goal.
Step 2. Install a sub with an amp.
Step 3. Install an amp for your speaker upgrade.
This is just a start, but a must if you're going for more wattage.
All I have now is the stock SGII. Spent over $5000 on audio equipment on my previous car. Now, I'm just old and don't have the urge to "bump" any more.
Sorry Ruppstar,Ruppstar said:
I disagree on the amp first. In order to have a great system you need clearity first. If you don't, then your just goin' "getto." So many people start off with the amp and run the stock speakers to it's limit resulting in distortion.
IMHO:
Step 1. Upgrade your stocks to high quality speakers, something that'll handle you max wattage goal.
Step 2. Install a sub with an amp.
Step 3. Install an amp for your speaker upgrade.
This is just a start, but a must if you're going for more wattage.
All I have now is the stock SGII. Spent over $5000 on audio equipment on my previous car. Now, I'm just old and don't have the urge to "bump" any more.
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JDoubleU529 said:
ACTUALLY!..... the number one reason why stock speakers dont sound as good... is not the speakers (to a point) - its because the factory deck is sending out a whopping 15 watts to them... you can by a set of 600 dollar boston accoustic 6 x 9's and if your still putting 15 watts to them.... guess what.... still sounds shitty.... its the clarity and amplification the speakers receive that makes the difference..... if you want the BIGGEST difference right off the bat... trust me amp first... then go with speakers... ive done so many stereos from small to big... I now have 7 amplifiers going in my C, and have spent realistically over 10 grand on my entire system.... ive done both the amp first, and the speakers first... go with the amp first, if you want a realistical better upgrade...
Now if you already had the factory amp... which is like 300 watts or something.... you could still use more power, but my answer might be different.... but if your workin with the 4 speakers, no amp... just deck power.... an amplifier in your car WILL make the biggest difference... (remember) if you upgrade your speakers first and spend all that money... there still only getting 15 watts, and its not clean, its from the deck...
after the amp install, then i would look at upgrading your high end speakers
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Nope.
I had to post this due to sooo many people driving around with thier audio system playing nothing but bass without the highs and mids to balance it out.
I don't think so. If you push more wattage into the stock speakers, no matter what type of brand, you'll end up pushing it to the limits = blown speakers = shitty sound. The stock speakers will not be blown instantly but soon. Buy the way, most stocks are 8 ohms each and after markets are mostly 4 ohms each = 30w instead of 15w toward the speakers + room to upgrade to an amp in the future. And most stock audio systems are 4 ohm stable.LAIDBACKC said:
I had to post this due to sooo many people driving around with thier audio system playing nothing but bass without the highs and mids to balance it out.
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keyword = "think"JDoubleU529 said:
ive already done this
ive already tested both
with different stereos, and with different cars
amp first - PROVED to be more effective
every....single....time
you said - "most stocks are 8 ohms each and after markets are mostly 4 ohms each = 30w instead of 15w toward the speakers"
if you upgrade the stock speakers and they run at a different ohm... (lower, then what the factory amp was supposed too) - yes you will get more power out of the amp...but the amp will now run hotter, and less efficient, and thats how amps blow... ive roasted plenty in my day.... and the factory speakers in this car can handle more then 15 - 30 w.... maybe not much more... besides even if you upgrade the amp to the same power.... a better amp will prove better clarity to the speakers... the way a speakers sounds is mostly jsutified by the signal it gets.... if you upgrade the signal... you upgrade the clarity...
im not saying DONT upgrade the speakers.... cuz eventually you should... i am as well... but if your looking for a "FIRST" solution... buy an amp.... then upgrade speakers.... then buy a crossover.... then by an indash EQ.... (if you plan on going that far....but the factory speakers CAN only handle so much... but they definitely can handle more then your factory radio can give them... and trust me... a factory deck amplifier is CRAP.... unless its like an alpine $3000 head unit... even then... still not enough power
p.s. im also not saying... upgrading your speakers right off the bat... wont sound better then it does now.... but i am saying it wont make AS BIG A DIFFERENCE, then if you were to put an amplifier on the stocks.... then upgrade speakers lata...
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Consider this...
The most common form of "blowing" speakers is to pump them with high levels of clipping from an underpowered amp. It's much more rare that speakers are "overpowered" by an amplifier that has more available power than is rated by the speakers (unless again, the amplifier is driven to high levels of clipping).
Having said that, I agree that good audio system design starts with the drivers (speakers) and then amps are correctly selected based on the requirements. That, however, never seems to be correctly applied to the DIY "tunner"/aftermarket guy and with many low-end car stero operations. In any case, I'd always rather err on the side of too much, than too little, power!
The most common form of "blowing" speakers is to pump them with high levels of clipping from an underpowered amp. It's much more rare that speakers are "overpowered" by an amplifier that has more available power than is rated by the speakers (unless again, the amplifier is driven to high levels of clipping).
Having said that, I agree that good audio system design starts with the drivers (speakers) and then amps are correctly selected based on the requirements. That, however, never seems to be correctly applied to the DIY "tunner"/aftermarket guy and with many low-end car stero operations. In any case, I'd always rather err on the side of too much, than too little, power!
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i would agree speakers blow not from over powering but from distortion... now overpowering CAN CAUSE distortion.... but clipping and/or distortion definitely causes speakers to blow.... so im not saying you should buy a 5000 watt amplifier for your stock speakers.... but something of the same level...
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LAIDBACKC said:
no offense meant, but...
Clipping and THD are the ONLY distortion that is relevant to this discussion.
In this day-n-age, THD is a non-factor (even in the cheap car audio AMPS). The only distortion you'll find in todays systems are from over-rated (read 300W is really ony 45W) amps that are driven (turn up the volume control way up) to get high sp levels. This sends the AMP into clipping - BAD! The clipped signals are another way of saying that the signals being sent to the speakers are spikes (and are dealy to their VC's as they increase). Given sufficent "real" power beyond the speakers rated power, and you'll likely to cause botoming distortion (when the VC bottoms out the magnet and flys out as far as the suround will allow). While not good, there is a better chance of minimal or no damage in this scenario. People who go for really loud systems need to look at speaker that can deliver the highest sp levels and then buy ~ 2x the amp (real power - not the hyse) to minimize any possible clipping.
Alright, I wanna know the answer with SGII! I've got SGII (with the dinky "sub"). I replaced the front 3.5"s with Infinity Kappas, and have given thought to replacing the 6X9s. I may do a sub/amp at some point - nothing too extreme but good sound quality. But for now - something on the cheap - what say ye about the 6x9s??
Should the rears be 3-ways?? How 'bout them front 6x9s??? 2-ways okay for there??
Speak, oh wizened ones!
Should the rears be 3-ways?? How 'bout them front 6x9s??? 2-ways okay for there??
Speak, oh wizened ones!
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It's very difficult to blow speakers w/ too much power unless you're an idiot. It is very obvious that the speakers are peaking way before they blow. If you turn it down at that point, no problem. The problem with alot of my customers is that they continue to turn up the volume when it is obvious to everyone within 5 car lenghts that it is distorting.
I am running MB Quart Q series amps @ 2000 watts rms for each QSD component. The QSD's hold 400 watts rms. and yet I am running 2000 rms to them. The result...extremely clean and crisp sound because I never venture into the distortion range.
Every deck, amp and speaker will distort. The objective is to build a system where the threshold is below the distorted point. What I mean is if a cheap or factory system distorts at 100 decibels, and you want to listen to your music at 115 decibels, then you will be unhappy with your system.
If you build a system which will produce 150 decibels, then at 115 it will be crisp and clear.
That's what I did with my system. My components hold a total of 800 watts rms, so I give them amps which produce 4000 watts rms. My MB Quart 10's hold 300 watts rms, so I give them 3 2000 watts rms amps to my 3 10's. This means that I will always have clean sound because I will never venture into my distortion level.
So, put 70K in your system and you will also be happy. hehe
I am running MB Quart Q series amps @ 2000 watts rms for each QSD component. The QSD's hold 400 watts rms. and yet I am running 2000 rms to them. The result...extremely clean and crisp sound because I never venture into the distortion range.
Every deck, amp and speaker will distort. The objective is to build a system where the threshold is below the distorted point. What I mean is if a cheap or factory system distorts at 100 decibels, and you want to listen to your music at 115 decibels, then you will be unhappy with your system.
If you build a system which will produce 150 decibels, then at 115 it will be crisp and clear.
That's what I did with my system. My components hold a total of 800 watts rms, so I give them amps which produce 4000 watts rms. My MB Quart 10's hold 300 watts rms, so I give them 3 2000 watts rms amps to my 3 10's. This means that I will always have clean sound because I will never venture into my distortion level.
So, put 70K in your system and you will also be happy. hehe
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CottyGee said:Alright, I wanna know the answer with SGII! I've got SGII (with the dinky "sub"). I replaced the front 3.5"s with Infinity Kappas, and have given thought to replacing the 6X9s. I may do a sub/amp at some point - nothing too extreme but good sound quality. But for now - something on the cheap - what say ye about the 6x9s??
Should the rears be 3-ways?? How 'bout them front 6x9s??? 2-ways okay for there??
Speak, oh wizened ones!
Without any other information, I'd recommend that you continue any additional replacements with the same series Infinity's as the Kappa's. Doing so will guarantee that you will keep phase and timbre as close to identical as possible (which will make for a more realistic sound stage). RE: 2-way vs. 3-way... do the same here... if you go 2-way in front, then do the same in the back. Doing so keeps the crossover network identical (these are passive stock crosovers - not active) and will make for a better sound stage. Generally speaking, you ought to get a better division of freq. and therefore more accurate overall reproduction by going with the 3-way (but this may not always be true depending on the technical abilities of the speaker manufacturer - I would think Infinity would get it right and will be better). Think of it this way... how much $ diff. would it be to go 3-way, knowing that you've made a better coice and will not likely want to "upgrade"?
The cost difference between 2-way and 3-way Infinity Kappa 6x9s in negligible, IIRC.
I thought the "big deal" about the factory amp was that IT did all the cross-over stuff in the digital domain, sending post-cross signals to the different channels of the amp. ??
I thought the "big deal" about the factory amp was that IT did all the cross-over stuff in the digital domain, sending post-cross signals to the different channels of the amp. ??
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I don't see how that could happen as, by definition, a crossover network is analog. The sole job of crossover is to create a low pass / high pass filters which ideally divert the analog freq. to the correct driver. There are active and passive designs with multiple "orders" (how they filter) of these designs. A digital version of this would need to be seperated in the DSP. How that would work - I don't know. It would require Bi-amp or multi-amplification for each driver in each "channel" or "speaker".CottyGee said:
I would like to know, but will speculate that what the BA system acomplishes in the Digital domain has to do with coloring the sound stage - which is not only common, but also an ideal application of DSP.
The Reference and Kappa series tweeters are a bit too harsh for my liking. Make sure you audition them first and like the tweeter. If they seem too harsh, look for something with a silk tweeter.kcrnmale said:
Make sure you eventually plan on upgrading to an aftermarket amplifier. The factory amp will not suit your needs with aftermarket 6x9s. I learned this through experience...
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hey wess... do you think the high end memphis 8" components will sound good in the doors and in the back.... ive never heard of 8" components until lately.... im gettin pretty anxious... cuz i love the way mid bass sounds.... but i dono maybe too much? or maybe awesome..
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I don't have any experience w/ memphis components. I reccomend listening to them first and then making your choice.LAIDBACKC said:
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