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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Anyone else experiencing tire wear that may be related to the original alignment issue. After only 40,000 KMs.

The pulling to the right is likely a high sensitivity to road crown caused by Caster.

My issue is was the original alignment given excessive Camber or Toe IN?

Below are some images of passenger and drive tires and left and right edge shots of the driver tire. The passenger tire is identical.

Of interest I loaded an image of the rear tire as well which did wear reasonably well except for the centre has excessive wear. This is likely due to excessive air preasure. In summary, 340 hp does have something to do with the rear tire wear.

I have not rotated the tires according to maintenance records. I always dislike the vibrations that starts to cause. There is nothing like the ORIGINAL balancing. The reality is that the tire rotation would have masked the true wear issue.

Comments welcome.
 

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Mine are looking similar to this after 14,000 miles. I'm expecting to have to replace by 20,000. Hopefully there will be some good choices in the stock 18" size. (come on Michelin!)
 

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same here at 14k never saw a tire wear out so damn fast
 

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300c Owner said:
Anyone else experiencing tire wear that may be related to the original alignment issue. After only 40,000 KMs.

The pulling to the right is likely a high sensitivity to road crown caused by Caster.

My issue is was the original alignment given excessive Camber or Toe IN?

Below are some images of passenger and drive tires and left and right edge shots of the driver tire. The passenger tire is identical.

Of interest I loaded an image of the rear tire as well which did wear reasonably well except for the centre has excessive wear. This is likely due to excessive air preasure. In summary, 340 hp does have something to do with the rear tire wear.

I have not rotated the tires according to maintenance records. I always dislike the vibrations that starts to cause. There is nothing like the ORIGINAL balancing. The reality is that the tire rotation would have masked the true wear issue.

Comments welcome.
It's obvious to me that you have paid little to no attention to your tires for 25,000 miles. Had you done so you would have picked up the problems earlier and saved the tires. Tire pressure should be checked at least at every oil change. Had you done so the excessive center wear on the rear tire could have been avoided by simply leaving out some air!
I had feathering problems with the front tires due to improper initial factory toe-in. Had that fixed at 7200 miles after visually noticing it. I too feel that rotating tires on such a short rotation interval (6000 miles) just hides the wear, but the thing is that the tires are inspected during rotations and problems can be picked up way before excessive wear occurs.
I too once rotated a set of tires and had such bad tire noise that I rotated them back to their original positions where they stayed for a total of 50000 miles before replacement. Some tires just don't like being moved I guess.
Sorry, but I can see only operator-error and neglect in those pictures.
If you have the car professional serviced, you need to find another pro who knows what he is doing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
For what it's worth, it has been serviced regularly (on schedule) every 5000 KM by a Chrysler dealer. Two different dealers. Although asked, I regularly declined the tire rotation for the reasons mentioned.

Operator error? The dealers should be addressing this as they see the car almost every 60 days. They are the ones doing the over inflation. Although I see the issue, I can't approve the warranty work. The reality is I look forward to getting new tires and will pay for my own alignment if Chrysler doesn't come through.

My real objective is to see if the problem orginated from the factory configuration and if so, it should appear on almost all 300c's if there really is a problem. I expect most people will do the tire rotations and inadvertantly mask the issue. We will likely never know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
UPDATE: Alignment

After installing new tires I also arranged to have them adjust the alignment.

See the attachments ... the original alignment was out of spec. for both front wheels clearly explaining the tire wear.

Question: Any suggestions as to who, where to contact regarding getting the cost of my two front tires covered (at least partial) and at least the cost of the alignment?
 

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300c Owner said:
After installing new tires I also arranged to have them adjust the alignment.

See the attachments ... the original alignment was out of spec. for both front wheels clearly explaining the tire wear.

Question: Any suggestions as to who, where to contact regarding getting the cost of my two front tires covered (at least partial) and at least the cost of the alignment?
Your dealer is working with old and incorrect settings.
Below are the latest TSB settings.
Also note that all your dealer did was adjust the toe. There have been several other threads where folks posted their alignment specs and most of them looked like yours. The dealer fixed the toe, but nothing else. It appears the Brampton factory has a problem with toe alignment. My toe was also way out of wack. But my dealer adjusted the camber and caster to get rid of my right pull.
https://mydata.datadepositbox.com/download/anonymous/3415-37067186-0-244424431/02-002-05.pdf

TSB # 02-002-05
March 12, 2005
Right Lead/Revised Alignment Specifications

THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 02-003-04, DATED MAY 25, 2004, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. ALL REVISIONS ARE HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDES REVISED REAR WHEEL DRIVE (RWD) SPECIFICATIONS, ADDITIONAL SPECIFICATIONS FOR ALL WHEEL DRIVE (AWD) AND AN ADDITIONAL MODEL YEAR.

SUBJECT: Right Lead/Revised Alignment Specifications

OVERVIEW: This bulletin involves adjusting the alignment to revised specifications.

MODELS: 2005 - **2006** (LX) 300/Charger/Magnum

SYMPTOM/CONDITION: The vehicle operator states the vehicle leads to the right.

DIAGNOSIS: Drive the car on a FLAT road. If the car tracks straight, the vehicle operator is experiencing crown sensitivity. If the vehicle tracks to the right, perform the Repair Procedure. Crown sensitivity can not be eliminated in all the cases.

NOTE: Before evaluating the vehicle, it is important to check the following:
1. Tire pressure - Adjust tire pressure (if necessary) in all four wheels to the pressure stated on the door placard.
2. Tire size & type - Verify that all four tires are the same size and type.

NOTE: When evaluating the vehicle, always drive the same road in both directions to get a feel for the effect of road crown & cross wind.

REPAIR PROCEDURE: 1. Use the procedures outlined on TechCONNECT service info tab / 2-Suspension / Wheel Alignment, to set the wheel alignment to the specifications below.

NOTE: When aligning the front end to induce right caster bias (the vehicle will tend to track toward the side with the least positive caster), target the cross caster to be **-1.0 degrees and no more than -1.6 degrees for RWD and target the cross caster to be 0.6 degrees and no more than -1.2 degrees for AWD**. That means you will have more caster on the right than on the left. Cross camber should be set at +0.2 - +0.3 degree. That means you will have more camber on the left than on the right. Utilize the cradle shift method PRIOR to using the caster/camber adjustment bolt kit, p/n 05134117AA **for RWD, p/n 05161519AA for AWD**. The adjustment bolts only provide about 0.2 - 0.3 degree change and should only be used as a last resort. When shifting the cradle, the passenger side of the cradle will move forward in car and the driver's side will move rearward in car.

NOTE: After the cradle has been shifted, torque all 4 cradle bolts to 175Nm (130 ft. lbs.).

CAUTION: If an adjustment bolt is to be installed do not allow the bolt head to turn during disassembly or assembly, the cradle tension link joint or the lower control arm bushing inner metal sleeve will be destroyed and require replacement. THE NUT MUST BE UNTORQUED AND REMOVED, BEFORE THE BOLT. Once the nut is removed the bolt can be slid out.


**REVISED ALIGNMENT SPECIFICATIONS


FRONT: RWD ____ PREFERRED SETTING ____ ACCEPTABLE RANGE

CAMBER -LEFT _____________ 0° __________ -0.50° to +0.50°
CAMBER -RIGHT __________ -0.30° __________ -0.80° to +0.20°
Cross-Camber ____________ 0.30° __________ -0.25 to +1.00°
CASTER -LEFT ___________ +9.40° __________ +8.40° to +10.40°
CASTER -RIGHT __________ +10.40° ________ +9.40° to +11.40°
Cross-Caster ___________ -1.00° __________ -1.60 to -0.40°
INDIVIDUAL TOE __________ 0.05° __________ 0.00° to +0.10°
TOTAL TOE (1) __________ +0.10° __________ 0.00° to +0.20°
Maximum side-to-side diff ____ 0.00° __________ 0.06°
RIDE HEIGHT - INDIV. ___ 328mm (12 7/8 in.) __ 318 to 346mm (12 1/2 to 13 3/8 in.)
CROSS RIDE HEIGHT ________ 0 __________ -12 to +12mm (1/2 in.)


REAR: RWD ____ PREFERRED SETTING ____ ACCEPTABLE RANGE

CAMBER (2) __________ -0.75° __________ -1.25° to -0.25°
Cross-Camber _________ 0.00° __________ -0.80 to 0.80°
TOE -Right ___________ 0.03° __________ -0.12° to +0.18°
TOE -Left ____________ 0.17° __________ 0.02° to 0.32°
THRUST ANGLE _______ 0.07° __________ -0.08° to +0.22°
RIDE HEIGHT - INDIV. ___ 296mm (11 5/8in.) __ 286 to 306mm (11 1/4 to 12 in.)
CROSS RIDE HEIGHT _____ 0 __________ -12 to +12mm (1/2 in.)



FRONT: AWD ____ PREFERRED SETTING ____ ACCEPTABLE RANGE

CAMBER -LEFT ____________ 0° ____________ -0.50° to +0.50°
CAMBER -RIGHT __________ -0.30° __________ -0.80° to +0.20°
Cross-Camber ____________ 0.30° __________ -0.25 to +1.00°
CASTER -LEFT ____________ +4.50° ________ +3.50° to +5.50°
CASTER -RIGHT __________ 5.10° __________ 4.10° to 6.10°
Cross-Caster____________ -0.60° __________ -1.20° to 0.0 °
INDIVIDUAL TOE __________ 0.05° __________ 0.00° to +0.10°
TOTAL TOE (1) __________ +0.10° __________ 0.00° to +0.20°
Maximum side-to-side diff ____ 0.00° __________ 0.06°
RIDE HEIGHT - INDIV. ____ 352mm (13 7/8 in.) ___ 342 to 362mm (13 1/2 to 14 1/4 in.)
CROSS RIDE HEIGHT ______ 0 _____________ -12 to +12mm (1/2 in.)


REAR: AWD ____ PREFERRED SETTING ____ ACCEPTABLE RANGE

CAMBER (2) __________ -0.75° ____________ -1.25° to -0.25°
Cross-Camber _________ 0.00° ____________ -0.80 to 0.80°
TOE -Right ___________ 0.03° ____________ -0.12° to +0.18°
TOE -Left _____________ 0.17° ____________ 0.02° to 0.32°
THRUST ANGLE ________ 0.07° ____________ -0.08° to +0.22°
RIDE HEIGHT - INDIV. __ 308mm (12 1/8 in.) ___ 298 to 318mm (11 3/4 to 12 1/2 in.)
CROSS RIDE HEIGHT _____ 0 _____________ -12 to +12mm (1/2 in.)

NOTE: Vehicle height and suspension alignment values reflect after vehicle spring settling values, after the vehicle has been jounced at each corner.

NOTE: (1) TOTAL TOE is the sum of both left and right wheel toe settings. Positive toe is toe-in and negative toe is toe-out. (2) For reference only. These are non-adjustable angles.**
 

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Good luck finding someone to pay for your crappy tires. Some folks on this forum have reported getting a special price/discount from Continental on replacement tires.
But then these email responses from Chrysler and Continental, to someone with bad tire wear, says there are no guarantees of getting any deals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef28fa9
Sent Emails to both Chrysler and Contential Tire: Here is their response:
Dear Don:
Thank you for your email to DaimlerChrysler.
The following areas are covered by separate warranties, not the
Manufacturers Basic New Vehicle Warranty:
* Tires (warranted by the tire manufacturer)
Continental Tire Company
Owner Relations
1800 Continental Blvd.
Charlotte, NC 28273

* 800-847-3349
www.continentaltire.com

Thank you again for your email.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Response (Jose) - 07/21/2005 01:08 PM
Dear Dan,
[Web Inquiry: 050720-000006]

Thank you for contacting use regarding your concerns over your claim, # 02388. On 7/19, you still had 4/32 of an inch, or 22% of the tread life remaining on your P225/60R1899H tires. Our original equipment tires do not offer a mileage or use guarantee, up to a predetermined mileage as you may find in the replacement market. Although this is not a warranty issue, and you have a high performance 2005 CHRYSLER 300C with a 5.7L V8 HEMI engine, using high performance tires, we made a goodwill offer of assistance.
A modern tire is a complex technical component that must perform a variety of functions. In the process of designing and manufacturing our tires we aim for a multitude of desired features including best wet tractions, superior handling behavior, high mileage and low fuel consumption, material and pattern design. Most of these features represent conflicting goals and leave tire engineers no choice but to settle for a compromise between opposing characteristic. That is the reason why high performance tires offer superior handling and wet performance characteristics but may not achieve the mileage results of standard broad market tires.
This was the topic of a Wall Street Journal article concerning the increased use of low profile high performance tires on more and more vehicles:
Burning Rubber Gets Expensive
Pricey Tires Increasingly Come Standard on Cars, But Wear Out Easily.

By Michelle Higgins, Apr 21, 2005
Sincerely,
Continental Tire North America, Inc.
Customer Relations
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for all the info.

I have followed up with DC Customer Service but they basically just laughed and didn't care. Just excuses.

I asked for 3 items:
1) pay for my KM to travel from Toronto to Windsor because the Windsor dealer was the only one that would replace the rims.
2) pay for the alignment
3) pay for part of the tire wear due to the alignment

I faxed the summary of my discussion to the Customer Service department as well.

I doubt they will assist. DC Services has been very poor on this topic.
 

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300c Owner said:
Thanks for all the info.

I have followed up with DC Customer Service but they basically just laughed and didn't care. Just excuses.

I asked for 3 items:
1) pay for my KM to travel from Toronto to Windsor because the Windsor dealer was the only one that would replace the rims.
2) pay for the alignment
3) pay for part of the tire wear due to the alignment

I faxed the summary of my discussion to the Customer Service department as well.

I doubt they will assist. DC Services has been very poor on this topic.
If you had instead complained about a right pull/lead, the dealer would have had to give you the alignment for free under warranty. Your dealers are scum for not fixing the alignment under warranty because they know the cars front-end suspension is a chronic problem/mess.
 

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I am going in for an alignment this weekend on my 300C at a local shop that I've been using on all of my cars. Should I make sure they align them to the revised specs posted above and should any special considerations be taken due to the fact that I have the Eibach lowering kit on the car? Thanks for any advice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Alignment

I would suggest contacting your Chrysler Dealer and getting the LATEST TSB regarding the alignment.

Realize that the Chrysler Caster / Chamber settings make the 300c very exposed to sensitivity to road crown. In english it will pull left or right more than other manufactures due to just little variations in the road.

If the dealer won't do it under warranty I would suggest paying the charges to get it done. The most important value is the TOE-IN which causes your tire wear.
 

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My wear has been even, had the right pull bolt kit done last Summer. I think when I get my BFGs tomorrow I will rotate every 3K for max life.
 

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Dealer already full of it...

Took my Silver C in for right pull, Oil Change, AC-freezing after long operation and tires cupping. Service rep tells me we have never had a problem with these tires before. At 7am this is not what I wanted to hear. I tell the guy to get the service manager. He comes over and I explain why Im there and what needs to be done. I hand him a current list of TSB's and explain that the tires are a known issue and in a normal tone of voice I ask can you get this done or do I need to talk to the owner of the dealership. Serv Mgr says "you seem to know alot about this car but we will look at the car and evaluate it". Ill update when I hear back from dealership.
 

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BrilliantBlackHemi said:
Mine are looking similar to this after 14,000 miles. I'm expecting to have to replace by 20,000. Hopefully there will be some good choices in the stock 18" size. (come on Michelin!)

Michelin has a 235/60/VR18 in its HX MXM4 at the TIRE RACK.

Bill
 

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Grey Eagle said:
Michelin has a 235/60/VR18 in its HX MXM4 at the TIRE RACK.

Bill
Gang,

I just had these tires installed last week and they are a whole lot better than the OEM's. Now I just have to get the speedometer set correctly. I am finding that to be a PITA trying to get the seting right.



P.S. I got them at Discount Tire and they Prorated the Connie's out at a 100% and took that amount off of the Michelins. I paid just about $350+ tax and had new skins on the ground again.
 

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My car is going in next week for the front end alignment TSB 02-002-05. To correct the pull to the right,they will replace the camber bolts. They also flashed the PCM for hesitation on acceleration no TSB for this. But STAR online said refer to TSB 18-031-04 for the updated software so far it`s better.
 

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mspeasl said:
Gang,

I just had these tires installed last week and they are a whole lot better than the OEM's. Now I just have to get the speedometer set correctly. I am finding that to be a PITA trying to get the seting right.



P.S. I got them at Discount Tire and they Prorated the Connie's out at a 100% and took that amount off of the Michelins. I paid just about $350+ tax and had new skins on the ground again.
From what I can tell, there is only going to be a 1.7% difference reslting in 60 vs. 61 mph readings...you are agonizing over this little difference in speedo?
 

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Two300Cs said:
Took my Silver C in for right pull, Oil Change, AC-freezing after long operation and tires cupping. Service rep tells me we have never had a problem with these tires before. At 7am this is not what I wanted to hear. I tell the guy to get the service manager. He comes over and I explain why Im there and what needs to be done. I hand him a current list of TSB's and explain that the tires are a known and in a normal tone of voice I ask can you get this done or do I need to talk to the owner of the dealership. Serv Mgr says "you seem to know alot about this car but we will look at the car and evaluate it". Ill update when I hear back from dealership.

Oil change no charge
AC fixed accord to TSB ( they replaced a 147 dollar part) no charge
Right pull Re-alignment to TSB No charge
Tires...No deal on the replacement.

tech made notes on the invoice stating "uneven wear recommend replacement and excessive wear at 13000 Tires are are 4/32 warranty replacement is recommended." I asked the tech why he wouldnt just do the replacement and he said srvc mgr is an idiot and wont authorize it...thats why he put his remarks on the invoice. When he brought my car up he said just take it to another dealer and they will see the remarks and should honor the warranty. Ahhhhhhhh5 star service at its finest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
300c Owner said:
Thanks for all the info.

I have followed up with DC Customer Service but they basically just laughed and didn't care. Just excuses.

I asked for 3 items:
1) pay for my KM to travel from Toronto to Windsor because the Windsor dealer was the only one that would replace the rims.
2) pay for the alignment
3) pay for part of the tire wear due to the alignment

I faxed the summary of my discussion to the Customer Service department as well.

I doubt they will assist. DC Services has been very poor on this topic.
Well, I received a nice FORM letter from the "SERVICE" department. I don't know why they would call it SERVICE ... just a simple WE DON'T CARE. They will not admit any issue exists with the original alignment or tire wear or the issue that some dealers will replace rims and others won't. Their comment about the fact that the TSB exists was a simple "it does not imply any warranty" only repair instructions for the dealer service department. In other words ... known of the customer's business.

If anyone wants to escalate further I could scan and share the WHO CARES memo.
 
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