[Smackeyacky]

Got two new ones, will see tomorrow if it makes a difference to the codes. Will not reuse the two that i hit with carby cleaner.

These have slightly higher ohm measurements on the heater (4.8 vs 4). I have decided to pop the PCM out and check the wiring continuity before i put any parts on there.

Should have probably ordered the NTK ones from rock auto but i didn't want to wait 3 weeks. I feel like that was a mistake already but fingers crossed.

 

[magnuman]

Handle with care and try not to touch the "business end" of the sensors!! What brand O2 sensors did you get? My only bad experience was with the Bosch upstream ones. They just wouldn't heat up quick enough. I still have the Bosches in the downstream positions and no problem with them. I haven't tried any others, other than NTK's which my parts guy toId me were the OEM's for Chrysler products. I am guessing that you'll eventually be changing the downstream ones on yours too, as I am relatively certain, given the amount of contamination you've experienced, they'll probably be bad. If you're receiving something like P0420/P0430 DTC's or other P042X/P043X ones, that'll be your clue. Good luck......I think you're getting down to the "more manageable stuff" with regard to making the Hemi do what it is suppose to do.

 

[Smackeyacky]

Handle with care and try not to touch the "business end" of the sensors!! ......I think you're getting down to the "more manageable stuff" with regard to making the Hemi do what it is suppose to do.

I do have some doubts about this PCM vs. the wiring harness. The part number on my PCM indicates a 2006 5.7 Auto (P04606839AD). I wonder if the pinouts are the same for a PCM that runs the 2009 EZH motor. I have a feeling that the codes being thrown were probably being thrown before I touched it.

 

[magnuman]

I am talking U.S. vehicles now and don't know if yours are the same. I am guessing, predominantly, they are. The PCM pinouts are the same, at least for 05-08. If yours is an 09, it should have Variable Valve Timing (VVT). Then there would be a problem using the early PCM unless someone has locked/limited the cam advance. All of the later bolt ons.....heads, intake, etc. will bolt onto an early block though with minimum modifications to some components.....i.e. the 09's don't have an EGR Valve, but the early ones do. Also, some of the component electrical plugs may be different. If you get a chance, post up all the codes you're getting and let's see if we can figure out what's going on. From all you've been going through though, it seems like the previous owner was a real butcher and completely trashed the vehicle. Pretty sad, as they're really nice when taken care of. I still regret selling mine.

 

[Smackeyacky]

Really don't know what's going on here. The left bank is dribbling a small amount of clean oil out of the exhaust! The intake manifold had a small amount of oil in it. I may not have cleaned it out properly I guess but it seems unlikely as the oil is clean, not filthy like it was the first time. I yanked the intake manifold and cranked it to see if anything obvious was shooting out of the motor but nothing obvious is. It does make some weird popping noises on #6 and a distinct puff of compressed air shoots out of it although it shows good compression when cranked despite the weird pressure release back through the intake port.

I thought might be that #6 exhaust valve not opening / missed a pushrod when re-assembling but it's fine. Engine has good compression (175). The only thing I can think of to check next is the valve seals (again) and the MDS solenoids, maybe #6 is stuck although turning the motor by hand with the valve cover off the valves look to be actuating as you would expect.

PCM...I dunno. The engine is definitely a 2009 with VVT but I don't know if the cam is locked or not. edit: how do you check the VVT? Is it possible without pulling the engine and taking the timing case off?

 

[Smackeyacky]

Checked everything, all looks fine. Dribble of oil probably an artifact of oil left in exhaust system and intake manifold.

Can't seem to get enough space or purchase on those upstream oxy sensors to get them out. I reckon once they are swapped it will run fine. Found an interesting note in the boot that makes no sense, i have no blown fuses. Looks like the heater circuit messages were there from the previous owner though.

 

[Smackeyacky]

...and things got a lot worse. Oil kept coming out the left side exhaust. Yanked the head again and #7 is full of oil. I cleaned up most of it but you can still see a bit there in the photo.

Here is where I screwed up royally. When I was putting the pistons in, #7 just wouldn't go, the oil control rings would not compress enough. Thinking old school Alfa Romeo motors, we used to trim the 1 piece oil rings as they sometimes made them too big.

What I failed to understand was that modern 3 piece oil rings work completely different to the old ones. The centre spacer keeps tension in the other two rings. Being the idiot I am, I trimmed that spacer and unknowingly left myself with no tension on the oil rings at all.

Hidden Horsepower: Revealing The Secrets Of The Oil Control Rings

A lot of attention has been paid over the years to the top and second rings on the piston. As we look at the oil ring, we find lots of room for gains.

www.enginelabs.com

I think I will drop the sump this time instead of pulling the engine although it seems like nearly the same amount of work.

 

[Smackeyacky]

Sump out. Much easier than i expected. No trick to it, the engine doesn't even have to go that high once you lower the steering rack. Sump does get hung up on the oil pickup so you have to loosen off the 13mm bolt but after that it came out easy. Putting it back might be fiddly though.

 

[Grumpy1]

"...trimmed that spacer and unknowingly left myself with no tension on the oil rings..."
As one who often rationalizes some... not so correct actions, I appreciate your sharing this tid bit. It's nice to be alone...lol

 

[Smackeyacky]

"...trimmed that spacer and unknowingly left myself with no tension on the oil rings..."
As one who often rationalizes some... not so correct actions, I appreciate your sharing this tid bit. It's nice to be alone...lol

I know nobody is reading this thread but if they stumble on it perhaps I can stop somebody being as stupid as me. Engines seem the same as they were 30 years ago but really they have changed radically in detail.

I have no qualms about admitting my mistakes, in fact this car has been a fascinating learning experience. Valve lapping will always be the same but rings and gaskets are nothing like they used to be. No shame in not knowing that, the shame would be not apportioning blame correctly and learning from mistakes.

edit: just to correct the terminology, the intermediate part between the two oil rings is not a spacer, it's a tensioner and it depends 100% on being the right length to work. On the Hemi, apparently the most tension applied to the cylinder is from the oil ring package. As I found out, you can have stellar compression and zero oil control if you decide to "customise" that tensioner. I am lucky I only did it to one of them.

 

[magnuman]

I am finally back.....two dead computers brought back to life and one keyboard/mouse replacement. Had to replace one hard drive and start all over on the other. Fortunately no loss of important stuff. Man, this new keyboard sucks too. My old one was an ergonomic one and this one is just a standard. I don't know if I can get used to it. Also, I have to reboot this computer every morning because it loses its internet connection over night. Haven't had a look at it yet. Any suggestions?

Ouch on the rings, but glad it was only one cylinder. At least you seem to be maintaining a good attitude and getting an education along the way. You are getting closer though.....which is a good thing. The other good thing is, you may be helping some other folks and maybe keep them from making the same mistake. Good luck, and keep on keeping on.

 

[Smackeyacky]

Got the sump gasket off with no apparent damage. The book says you should replace this but since the engine hasn't gone through a heat cycle I don't think it is necessary.
Can now see the bolts on the conrod I need to access with with the engine crane legs in the way it's hard to reach them. Will drop the motor back on the mounts so I can move it while the surgery continues, plus it doesn't seem really safe to be hauling on the conrod bolts with the engine suspended by a chain in a car sitting on jack stands, I don't want to turn the motor into a giant, car toppling wrecking ball.

Also, I have to reboot this computer every morning because it loses its internet connection over night. Haven't had a look at it yet. Any suggestions?

Is it a windows machine? Might be an error hidden somewhere in your event viewer. Otherwise I would look at the router / modem you are using to access the internet for any information about why your PC is getting dropped from the network.

 

[Grumpy1]

"it loses its internet connection over night.... "
That sound like a power saver option or a glitch in the sleep recovery. That sleep or hybernate state has never worked out around here. Windows seems to run best when booted fresh and with the speed of SSD's, boot time is in seconds. Good Luck

 

[magnuman]

Yes, it's a Windows 7 Pro 64 bit machine (I hate 10) with an SSD drive. I looked at the "network connection status" and it appears the "lease obtained" and "lease expires" times are, for some reason not resetting every 12 hours as it should. So, I think it does have something to do with the network router. For sure I don't have too many devices on the network, so it's not overloaded. Now that I know it's not too serious, I won't worry, and will find/fix the problem when I get some time.

Thanks guys.

 

[Smackeyacky]

Hours to get to, 30 seconds to fix. I have no recollection of chopping that much out of the tensioner, at the time it seemed like a very slight trim. Next is getting it back in. I just used the best loooking spacer from the replaced parts, but with the new oil control rings. ARP rod bolts are reuseable so those are going back in, along with the 2nd head gasket that came off undamaged and the sump gasket that still looks like new.

Unfortunately I managed to contaminate the fresh oil that was in it with coolant when I popped the head, despite draining coolant beforehand, so purchased a fresh filter and fresh oil.

 

[magnuman]

Don't reuse the head gasket if it's already been compressed..

 

[Smackeyacky]

Don't reuse the head gasket if it's already been compressed..

I thought the MLS gaskets were re-usable if they haven't seen operating temperature and the elastomer layer was intact - this one has done 60 seconds tops of running time.
https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58500

 

[magnuman]

Maybe they have new material that is reusable and, if so, I am not familiar with it. On any vehicle I've ever had to remove heads on more than once (always racers), I've always used new gaskets To me, tearing the engine down again is not worth the price of head gaskets, or any other gaskets for that matter. Good to know about the MLS gaskets though.

I know, years ago, before they had all this new trick stuff, especially on race motors we used to solder thin copper wire to the layered aluminum gaskets around all of the cylinders, especially on blower or high compression motors. This helped keep them from blowing, on motors with high compression pressures.. The other thing we used to do, especially on "normal" motors is spray paint both sides of them with silver paint before installing them. That also helped seal them. This was all "old school stuff though. As you know, things are a lot different today.

 

[Smackeyacky]

I know, years ago, before they had all this new trick stuff, especially on race motors we used to solder thin copper wire to the layered aluminum gaskets around all of the cylinders, especially on blower or high compression motors. This helped keep them from blowing, on motors with high compression pressures.. The other thing we used to do, especially on "normal" motors is spray paint both sides of them with silver paint before installing them. That also helped seal them. This was all "old school stuff though. As you know, things are a lot different today.

They certainly are different - the cars I am used to working on had a sandwich of asbestos, metal and glue in the head gasket (obviously not a great choice for health and safety) and were definitely single use only. These MLS gaskets are new to me. Between all the rubber o-ring gaskets and the MLS head gaskets, it's so much easier than fiddling with paper gaskets and gasket goo.

Having said that, I'm not entirely sure it's a great idea to re-use this gasket but I'm going to give it a punt. I've pulled it apart so many times now I can do it in my sleep.

 

[Smackeyacky]

Reassembled again. Fluids tomorrow and another try to see if it runs right.

Took a break last weekend to see the V8 supercars first race of the season in Newcastle, bought a welder to fix the exhaust holes and had a beer just because.