[GoofyTimL]

Also posted this in LXforums...
Just been listening to a local talk radio program which is discussing "black boxes" in autos by GM and Ford, which keep track of every action, speed, brake function, air bag function, etc., possibly even location (GPS) that happens in a vehicle. The National Motors Assoc. says that the vehicle owner doesn't have access to the data recorded, even when specifically requested, but... the Mfgr, police and insurance companies apparently can get at it in court situations to prove their case or that "the vehicle" wasn't at fault, i.e., operator error. The "talk" is about how such data could be used to prove the driver's innocence in certain situations, but that the driver (owner) can't get the data.

They're saying that it is tied in with the air bag systems and can not be disabled. Often dealers and salesmen have no idea that the devices are even in the cars, since it is a manufacturing OEM install. Obviously lots of discussion about privacy, etc., and that there generally isn't any legislation regarding these devices other than in Calif. where the presence of the device must be disclosed at time of sale... still doesn't give the owner access or benefit.

The NMA guy didn't know whether DCX is installing the technology, so does anyone here have any idea... with as much computerization as is in these vehicles it would NOT surprise me.

 

[HEMEEE]

Yes Tim, we have Event Data Recorders, aka 'black boxes' in our 300's.
Here are a couple of threads on the topiic:

http://www.300cforums.com/forums/general-discussion/4730-black-boxes-big-brother.html?highlight=event+data+recorder

http://www.300cforums.com/forums/general-discussion/6843-a-spy-our-lxs.html

 

[Irwin]

black boxes

Also posted this in LXforums...
Just been listening to a local talk radio program which is discussing "black boxes" in autos by GM and Ford, which keep track of every action, speed, brake function, air bag function, etc., possibly even location (GPS) that happens in a vehicle. The National Motors Assoc. says that the vehicle owner doesn't have access to the data recorded, even when specifically requested, but... the Mfgr, police and insurance companies apparently can get at it in court situations to prove their case or that "the vehicle" wasn't at fault, i.e., operator error. The "talk" is about how such data could be used to prove the driver's innocence in certain situations, but that the driver (owner) can't get the data.

They're saying that it is tied in with the air bag systems and can not be disabled. Often dealers and salesmen have no idea that the devices are even in the cars, since it is a manufacturing OEM install. Obviously lots of discussion about privacy, etc., and that there generally isn't any legislation regarding these devices other than in Calif. where the presence of the device must be disclosed at time of sale... still doesn't give the owner access or benefit.

The NMA guy didn't know whether DCX is installing the technology, so does anyone here have any idea... with as much computerization as is in these vehicles it would NOT surprise me.

Hi Goofy, Last year a man in SW PA was in an accident involving a fatality, and he was convicted for speeding, and manslaughter, by the police using the data stored in his black box. I can't remember the make, but I think it was a Caddy. This guy was some important official, but can't remember all the detaiils.

 

[FreebirdSRT]

The E.D.R.'s (Black Box) have been in most auto manufacturers cars/trucks for several years now I believe. I think Motorcycles are the only one's left without them, but porbably not for long, with insurance Co. dishing out so much each year for motorcycle accidents, deaths, etc. Big Brother is ALWAYS watching you. They always have been and always will be.

The auto manufacturers have been keeping tabs on your driving habits since the introduciton of "OBD" (On Board Diagnostics) back in 1993 -1994, I am not sure. And making it harder for the aftermarket world to get inside the Computer, engine, etc. with each OBD update. Why we wait longer each year for Hypertech, Superchips, etc to get product to market for our cars and why the check engine light is so sensitive to our intrusions (Mods). I believe we are up to OBD III in our 300's and most other manufacturers.

The Government wanted in on that action, I suppose, and now we have a Black Box to watch over us. I am not a Pilot, I am a Driver, lol. The government always has an answer for everything and to be able to get data for insurance Co's, traffic accident data, driver habits,etc. sounds like you got your answer from the boys in Washington. Why is it that we can't get access to the black box and take a peek, what else are they hiding or wanting to know about you, but ain't telling. Things that make you go, Hmmmmmmmm.

With the 94 - 96 Impala's we went through the OBD to OBD II update. The web master in our Houston club had the smallest produced number of Impala's which was 1994, roughly 6,000 of 70,000 total produced, thus the rarest. The 94 had OBD, while 95 and 96 had OBD II. Bone Stock 1994 Vs. either 95 or 96 bone Stock at the 1/4 track, on the street, anywhere we lined up. The 94 would spank the 95 and 96 as if it had mods and we didn't. Also when the club would do a group purchase and we would all meet and do a group install together to save time and money. By the time all of us would get home Sunday evening, some 95 & 96 engine lights going off and the 94: Nothing, Nada, Zip, He would joke that the only light that came on in his car was his guages and radio, smartass. We finally solved the problem, but it was very expensive. Buy the 1994 Computer and swap them, there were issues with the swap, not just plug and play. The techs at the Arlington,TX. Chevy factory, were the Impala was built, the guys there were more than welcome to help us out with the configuration to get us in the 94 computer set up. The factory even invited all Impala owners to the Factory (each year of production) for a Party, tour the factory, see the car being built, etc. The designer of our Impala SS was on hand and signed most of the undersides of our trunk lids or hood lids. Like Carroll Shelby signing one of your AC Cobras (pipe dream). Chevy was proud of there car and wanted to share in that with there customers. It is not to say DC is not proud of there 300's success, it just feels more from a dollar stand point than customer loyalty. When Hypertech was first coming out with programs for our cars, we had to order the 94 program. Hypertech couldn't figure it out at first, they received well over 10,000 orders for the 94 program and there were only 6,000 or so 94's made. Our national club filled them in. Back in 96 the only thing Hypertech and others could do was get in the system for shift point firmness, top end illiminator, tire height adjustment for wheel/tire changes, very limited. Today they have come along way and a lot of time too to be able to give you multiple hp package increases in one unit, some are even adjustable, on the fly now (the Edge Products). Goes from lets say 60hp, 80hp and 110hp jump in power all with the push of a button on the Edge screen. Back in 96, 1 to 5 hp gain that's it, all the Hypertech could let you do was better management of shift points, rev limiters, etc. That in turn would help with the aftermarket mods you did add, headers, exhaust, super chargers, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[artichoke]

The E.D.R.'s (Black Box) have been in most auto manufacturers cars/trucks for several years now I believe. I think Motorcycles are the only one's left without them, but porbably not for long, with insurance Co. dishing out so much each year for motorcycle accidents, deaths, etc. Big Brother is ALWAYS watching you. They always have been and always will be.

Speaking of Big Brother, does Nav transmit a beacon that the broader GPS system responds to? Or, does the little Nav unit in the car receive 3 or more satellite broadcasts and do the triangulation itself? I think it's the former, because otherwise I don't see how the GPS system could "fuzz" the location information to non-military receivers (but not to the military) as we know that it does.

If the Nav emits a signal, it helps BB keep you in his sights. I don't know if turning it off in the car really turns it off.

 

[Model 57]

Our Nav units are recievers only, the recieve something like 5-9 satelites, to do the computation of your location.

 

[toothdoc]

Speaking of Big Brother, does Nav transmit a beacon that the broader GPS system responds to? Or, does the little Nav unit in the car receive 3 or more satellite broadcasts and do the triangulation itself? I think it's the former, because otherwise I don't see how the GPS system could "fuzz" the location information to non-military receivers (but not to the military) as we know that it does.

If the Nav emits a signal, it helps BB keep you in his sights. I don't know if turning it off in the car really turns it off.

I believe the gps is just recieving a time signal from sats. the more it recieves the more accurate it is. three will give a 2d fix ; altitude requires 4 or more

 

[kevenj]

Big Brother is ALWAYS watching you. They always have been and always will be.

So THAT's what those black helicoptors are that I keep seeing ! I must have forgotten to pull those magnetic strips out of my paper money (those are there so the government can track you and tell how much cash you have - - but I'm sure you all knew that :wave: )

Seriously - - I believe that "black boxes" in cars are not government mandated but rather are there to protect the manufacturer from liability in the case of a crash; i.e. if it can be shown that the car was traveling at 110 mph when it crashed and someone is injured or killed it will be much harder to claim the car was unsafe and sue the manufacturer.

 

[pd171]

I believe the gps is just receiving a time signal from sats. the more it receives the more accurate it is. three will give a 2d fix ; altitude requires 4 or more

24 satellites for GPS with orbits that theoretically give the capability to receive at least four from anywhere on earth (if the earth didn't have hills and mountains). At least three are required for position on a flat plane and at least four will include altitude.

 

[CUEBALL]

I think it's the former, because otherwise I don't see how the GPS system could "fuzz" the location information to non-military receivers (but not to the military) as we know that it does.

They stopped 'spoofing' the satellite signal years ago, although the capability exists if needed. Your signal is the same as my military signal, and the same as the bomb's signal.

 

[CUEBALL]

Black Helicopters (BH) are not just helicopters with a black paint-job as you may have been told. They are, in fact, autonomous agents -- lifeforms -- created by New World Order (NWO) agencies via nanobiotechnology. Their primary purpose is to spy on the activities of average citizens in order to gather tactical information and discover "subversives" who are not bowing to the will of the Liberati's UN-backed Federal Government. Furthermore, when the NWO Invasion takes place in the not-too-distant future, they will round up citizens for internment in concentration camps or carry out the elimination of the more vocally anti-Liberati.

http://zapatopi.net/blackhelicopters/

 

[II kings 9:20]

OnStar does emit a signal as do many cell phones. A hostage in Iraq was rescued by using the GPS locator in his cell phone. It would not surprise me at all if our Nav did the same (though I agree I think it only receives). Imagine going WOT at your local drag strip and the engine goes south, not only could they tell what you were doing when it broke, they could also pinpoint your location at the strip, "good bye warranty".

 

[artichoke]

It's not black helicopters

So THAT's what those black helicoptors are ...

See the following new thread

http://www.300cforums.com/forums/general-discussion/15077-leave-canada-threaten-our-civil-liberties-speed-no-more.html

" ... It works very much like the in-car GPS navigation systems which have become so common on late model cars -- but with a twist. Instead of helping you find a destination, the system, prevents you from driving any faster than the posted speed limit of the road you happen to be on.

As in a conventional GPS-equipped car or truck, the system knows which road you're on, as well as the direction you're traveling. This information is continuously updating as you move. But in addition to this, the system also acquires information about the posted speed limit on each road, as you drive. Once your vehicle reaches that limit, the car's computer makes it increasingly difficult to go any faster. ..."

Is it only the on-board part of the GPS that knows which road you're on?

They stopped 'spoofing' the satellite signal years ago, although the capability exists if needed. Your signal is the same as my military signal, and the same as the bomb's signal.

I don't doubt you but if this is true, it's amazing to say the least. During this war time, why would that be done?

And on a different note, are they going to "flash" old GPS units with an update for speed limiting?

 

[DanRealtor]

Supposedly

Supposedly the Black Box in our cars is recording at all times, However: It only stores a few seconds of data. In the event of an airbag deployment it keeps the info for the several seconds before deployment and the moment of deployment. Throttle position, speed, heading, seat belt on or off, cruise control on or off RPM's Gear etc...

This data is retrievable by the car manufactrer only (not us) but will be provided to law enforcement agencies, insurance companies etc... IF court ordered.

Depending on the circumstances, this evidence could clear or convict you!

If the geniuses wanting to speed limit all vehicles via GPS to the legal limit at all times, my 174 mph "Sedan" would be worth a half a Bazillion dollars!


Dan