MAGNAFLOW 3" High Flow cats / 3" cat-back

9528 Views 45 Replies 13 Participants Last post by jconnolly1119, Feb 21, 2006

btlfed1500

Discussion Starter · Nov 30, 2005

3

400 rwhp ... so close but then again 397 is not so bad

MAGNAFLOW 3" HIGH FLOW CATALYST #16420

MAGNAFLOW 3" CAT-BACK p/n 16642 / 3" HIGH FLOW CATALYST p/n 16420

Here are the numbers you have been waiting for:

Stock Baseline: 377 rwhp / 378 lb-ft
MagnaFlow 3" High Flow Cats: 386 rwhp / 389 lb-ft
MagnaFlow 3" High Flow Cats / 3" Cat-Back: 397 rwhp / 400 lb-ft

MAX HP gain: 24 @ 5300 rpm
MAX TQ gain: 25 @ 4700 rpm

PEAK HP gain: 20
PEAK TQ gain: 22

Our Cat-Backs tend to produce 11-15 rwhp (conservatively with others seeing up to 20) and the MagnaFlow High Flow Cats produce another 7-8 rwhp on their own. The combination nets 20 SOLID rwhp and across the entire curve. I'm sure additoional testing would have netted a 400 RWHP number but what is 2.2 rwhp

Thanks again to Chris (Cbutler32) for dropping by to have us faciliate the install and dyno. He was more than patient while we worked on our next TV appearance filming here at the MagnaFlow Tech Center but hopefully he was entertained while getting to observe the entire installation and testing. From the smile on his face when he was here I'm sure he's enjoying the ride home.

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btlfed1500

Discussion Starter · #21 · Dec 1, 2005

freakyshiat said:
thanks for the reply. With these numbers, are headers really worth the price?

Evaluate what you want from your vehicle ... value is a personal assesment.

Lets look at a well known industry comparison:

I will use the 2005 GTO for a comparision as all these part are available and i have a fairly good knowledge base in these products.

Stock manifolds vs Shorty Headers vs Mid length Headers vs Long Tube Headers

For the 2005 GTO 6.0L here is some data I have actualyl collected-
Cat-backs yeild about 10 rwhp untuned / 15 tuned
High flow cats yeild about 6 rwhp untuned / 8 tuned
Shorties yeild about 10 rwhp untuned / 15 tuned
Mid lengths with high flow cats yeild about 15 rwhp untuned / 25 tuned
Long tubes with high flow cats yeild about 15 rwhp untuned / 30 tuned

Stock manifolds / high flow cats / cat-back (emissions legal consideration)
For about $1000 (600 cat-back/400 high flow cats) you can have 15 rwhp untuned or 20 tuned (+$400 for tuning)

Shorties / high flow cats / cat-back (emissions legal consideration)
For about $1600 (600 shorties/400 high flow cats/600 cat-back) you can have 25 rwhp untuned or 35 tuned (+$400 for tuning)

Mid-lengths / midpipes with high flow cats / cat-back (off-road)
For about $1500 (900 headers with cats/600 cat-back) you can have 25 rwhp untuned or 35 tuned (+$400 for tuning)

Long tubes / midpipes with hiogh flow cats / cat-back (off-road)
For about $1800 (1200 headers with cats/600 cat-back) you can have 25 rwhp untuned and 40 tuned (+$400 for tuning)

for 1400 you can have 20 rwhp tuned or for 2200 you can have 40 rwhp tuned. The 20 rwhp comes to $70/hp and the 40rwhp comes to $55/hp. In the long run the higher cost of the LTs will equate to better hp/$.

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btlfed1500

Discussion Starter · #22 · Dec 1, 2005

HalV48 said:
Does your muffler act as an X-pipe, or is it chambered seperately?

Also, there are several companies selling high flow cats. Has anyone tried them, or is this a CARB issue with the Magnaflow system? I had thought about buying the Cat-Back and adding some high flow cats from Random Technology.

The X-pipe was tested but not needed for power in our system. The mid bed muffler is a shared chamber muffler which allows the necessary cross-over balance from each exhaust bank.

Currently, no one has CARB approval for the SRT8 6.1L for CA cars. Also, no one has a metallic core OBDII certified 49 state catalyst. The current pieces are "off-road" as are all market offerings. OBDII compliance is not the same as OBDII certified.

HalV48

· #23 · Dec 1, 2005

btlfed1500 said:
The X-pipe was tested but not needed for power in our system. The mid bed muffler is a shared chamber muffler which allows the necessary cross-over balance from each exhaust bank.

Currently, no one has CARB approval for the SRT8 6.1L for CA cars. Also, no one has a metallic core OBDII certified 49 state catalyst. The current pieces are "off-road" as are all market offerings. OBDII compliance is not the same as OBDII certified.

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

cbutler32

· #24 · Dec 1, 2005 (Edited)

XCITsNU said:
Just out of curiosity... What was the ambient temp and barametric pressure at? Also was wondering if you ahve ever pulled the battery cable on your car Chris. If so when and at what mileage. I am thinking of resetting mine and driving like a lead footed gorilla for a while to learn this baby back up to where I think it was when I drove it off the lot, which I think was around 370 rwhp. My recent dyno of 385, just seems weaker than it should be. I am thinking the Hogh Flow cats will get this think up to around the numbers you are putting down.

72.99 degrees F; 29.19 in-Hg; humidity 25%...

I have never pulled the battery cable.
I think they did back when I got the oil changed at 3,500 miles to do a couple of things other than the oil change...
I can tell you that there is a difference...
and I am getting one of those GPS units soon...
so that should help with numbers...
and I might even try going to the track this Sat.
never have before though...
so I could do this to myself - :nutkick:

cbutler32

· #25 · Dec 1, 2005

4herb2tas0tik said:
hey chris, thanx man for taking the time to clear it up for me...so ive come to the decision to add the high flow cats it makes good sense to open her up all theway back..still havent decided on the headers i coulda swore i read it only added 5 or so rwhp gain...?but ill wait for a few more posts on that one...$1500 for the headers and $800 to install thats a pretty penny, to me anyway..

herbs - btlfed1500 - answers it pretty well in the very next post after yours.
it will be interesting to see what the numbers are from next week's dyno with the kooks headers...
and HE is the MAN for numbers and the reasons behind and why the numbers end up like they do...

btlfed1500

Discussion Starter · #26 · Dec 1, 2005 (Edited)

3

WhiteDiamond said:
It is worth noting that Chris's car is very healthy on the baseline test. That is probably from Chris's extensive use of the loud pedal as the PCMs do adapt to your driving a bit. Good job Chris!!!

One thing, just a little knock on the results, the 397rwhp number is from that nice little spike just before 6K rpm. What is the RWHP number before that spike?

If I wanted to impress I would have stayed on the dyno to get "impressive" results ... I don't, it's not how I do things ... I work for representative results. In this case the car DID actually make over 400 rwhp but lost it in smoothing ... I have no problem with that either as it is how we report all our numbers.

Here is the raw data: Uncorrected and Unsmoothed

I could have very easily just released information saying we made 377.3 HP / 372.8 TQ before and 402.8 HP / 401.0 TQ after. I could tell you that I have a chart coming and never post it and just hope no one contests my claims. This could be a claim of 24.5 HP / 28.2 TQ @ peak and even more under the curve. It is just not realistic even though it is all 100% accurate and truthful.

Here is the data as we reported it:

With smoothing applied at it highest level and SAE corrections made, the peak numbers fell 5 hp already ... why would I feel that the already averaged number was not representative?

If I wanted to play numbers games and try to fool someone i would quietly post STD correction factors and let the people assume what they will:

Do I really want to go around making statements based on this? Again ... not my style nor MagnaFlow's way of doing business.

I feel my represenation and the numbers are accurate and that the spike is not anomolous but representative in that it is a already reduced and averaged value. To any avail the spike is only across 5 sampling points and is more a curve than a spike.

All cars respond to dyno's differently. My Magnum SRT8, for example, on that exact same dyno did over 10rwhp less on the baseline(stock) pull than Chris's car. My car was much lower milage at that time and I hadn't had time to really drive it, but it shows how different numbers can be vehicle to vehicle and mod for mod. If you note my sig you will see that my post Magnaflow cat back numbers put my Magnum SRT8 about just a tad higher than Chris's 'stock' baseline pull.

Todd

The difference is NOT how the car's respond to the DYNO but in fact how different the cars are. In this case, the dyno used is the same and the differnces are truely differences in the cars. If this had been conducted on differnet dynos then the comparision is not as valid. It is consistant that I see more RWHP from a 300C than a Magnum ... calibrations do change from platform to platform. I will have yet another SRT 8 here in December to furhter validate these claims (Charger SRT8.) I have seen 15 LX platforms on my dyno and of those 4 SRT8s.

I know our systems fit ... I know they make power ... I know how they sound, but i choose to ensure that it is the case by continuing to repeat our testing ... not because I have to, but because I am personally compelled to bringing to market the best product we can and representing its abilities equally as well.

BTW - I can always rely on Todd to play the :evil: Devil's Advocate :silly:

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tbyrne

· #27 · Dec 1, 2005

VERY good post!

tbyrne

· #28 · Dec 1, 2005

When will 16420 be a valid part number? I was told there is nothing in the system for it yet.

Thanks!

freakyshiat

· #29 · Dec 1, 2005

btlfed1500, thank you very much for the reply and the info. Do you know how much louder the car gets with the magnaflows but no mid muffler/resonator? I am interested in comparing noise at idle, WOT and 70-90 mph/freeway cruising. Any hp gains by taking it off? Thanks again.

btlfed1500

Discussion Starter · #30 · Dec 1, 2005

tbyrne said:
When will 16420 be a valid part number? I was told there is nothing in the system for it yet.

Thanks!

Number will be entered in to the system on Monday ... Looks liek PRI held up the final Approval for release.

tbyrne

· #31 · Dec 1, 2005

Thank you!

cbutler32

· #32 · Dec 1, 2005

how is that for character and professionalism...
that is a company I can stand for and be proud of that I have their equipment on my car...
So I did get to 402 RWHP after all... :wink1:
btlfed1500 - guess we'll have to spend some time on the dyno when we do the re-alignment...
and make more than one run crammed into between your video shoots for TV shows... :wink1:

4herb2tas0tik

· #33 · Dec 1, 2005 (Edited)

cbutler32 said:
how is that for character and professionalism...
that is a company I can stand for and be proud of that I have their equipment on my car...

hey chris you said it!!..bt1500 you rock thank you...ill be waiting for your findings..

Doyle

· #34 · Dec 2, 2005

Congrats cButler on your numbers and your ride! I kind of wish I would have felt my car with just the magnaflows and high flow cats BEFORE I put on the Kooks, just so I could feel just how much difference the Kooks made on the street. I kind of got carried away and did it all at once. May your leg rehabilitate as fast as your car now accelerates!

WhiteDiamond

· #35 · Dec 2, 2005

btlfed1500 said:
BTW - I can always rely on Todd to play the :evil: Devil's Advocate :silly:

I will be nice if you build a Tru-X that fits our SRT8s easily

. If you build it, you could test it on one of the SRT8s coming in for LT headers and then sell it to me if you don't like it

I have to admit that I find it interesting that the 300C SRT8 is averaging higher than the MSRT8, as the Mag RT seems to average higher than the 300C from dyno's that popped up over the 1st year or so. I am very curious about the Charger SRT8 as I would expect Dodge to 'tweak' it, if they where going to tweak any of them.

Todd

cbutler32

· #36 · Dec 2, 2005

Doyle said:
Congrats cButler on your numbers and your ride! I kind of wish I would have felt my car with just the magnaflows and high flow cats BEFORE I put on the Kooks, just so I could feel just how much difference the Kooks made on the street. I kind of got carried away and did it all at once. May your leg rehabilitate as fast as your car now accelerates!

Mark,
trust me it is better to do it all at once!
The cat-back exhaust went on in August and the "cats" just went on yesterday...
I'm waiting to see the results on the Kooks gain stand-alone from next week's pending dyno test...
Thanks for the props...

btlfed1500

Discussion Starter · #37 · Dec 2, 2005

freakyshiat said:
btlfed1500, thank you very much for the reply and the info. Do you know how much louder the car gets with the magnaflows but no mid muffler/resonator? I am interested in comparing noise at idle, WOT and 70-90 mph/freeway cruising. Any hp gains by taking it off? Thanks again.

I would expect 1-2 Hp change but nothing substantial. The trade would be for unacceptable interior noise and a louder tail pipe note with greater popping and crackling under decelleration ... not an option in my mind.

maneval69

· #38 · Dec 2, 2005

btlfed1500 said:
I would expect 1-2 Hp change but nothing substantial. The trade would be for unacceptable interior noise and a louder tail pipe note with greater popping and crackling under decelleration ... not an option in my mind.

Those are some sweet gains.

Could you post a graph that includes the A/F charted?
I see that this system shows gains increasing as the rpm increase. All the dyno charts (see the chart in my sig) show the gains diminish at higher rpm. This goes hand in hand with the A/F ratio getting fatter.

Just wondering if the A/F is not getting fat at the top end with this mod.

Thanks

btlfed1500

Discussion Starter · #39 · Dec 2, 2005

maneval69 said:
Those are some sweet gains.

Could you post a graph that includes the A/F charted?
I see that this system shows gains increasing as the rpm increase. All the dyno charts (see the chart in my sig) show the gains diminish at higher rpm. This goes hand in hand with the A/F ratio getting fatter.

Just wondering if the A/F is not getting fat at the top end with this mod.

Thanks

The diminishing HP as RPM scales up is due to the computer predicting a shift. When the vehicle is operated in auto stick mode that prediction is not present allowing for proper spark until maximum rpm.

Looking at your curve you can see this diminishing power issue but it is common amongst any curve when run in full auto.
See here:
http://www.300cforums.com/forums/sr...agnaflow-performance-exhaust-the-srt-8-a.html

You can see that the fist dyno is similar to yours with power tapering off near the shift point. While fuel does tend to increase, it is the spark table that begins removing timing to make for a "less violent" shift so as to maintain longevity of the transmission. From my expereince i would assume that as much as 5-6 degrees is removed in prediction and as much as 15 degrees during the shift.

tbyrne

· #40 · Dec 5, 2005

Doesn't Magnaflow list the new part # yet? There was nothing as of this morning.

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