Mds delete with diablo i3
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The i3 will disable it for you... just did it on mine. Go into 'edit stock tune' IIRC, and you'll have the option. It's not a tune to load, just edit the existing tune... and if you load a tune after, you have the option to keep the changes.
edit 1/03/2023 to add the detailed path to turn mds off with an i3
Diablo i3 (purchased 2021),
choose 'Tune Vehicle' then 'continue'
'Advanced Tune' => 'Tune Select' => 'Modify Parameters'
There are three screen which you can now arrow down thru.
The current/first screen displays:
'Cooling Fans AC off'
'Cooling Fans AC on'
'Idle'
'MDS'
Once you made your choices, follow the prompts to load the changes/tune to the pcm. The existing tune reloads with the changes. It does not unload the tune that already installed albeit stock or other. This is where MDS gets turned on/off and fan setting are changed if you opt to run a cooler t-stat. The other screens contain Rev & Speed Limits, Throttle, Tire Size, Traction Control, Transmission, WOT Fuel, WOT Spark.
edit 1/03/2023 to add the detailed path to turn mds off with an i3
Diablo i3 (purchased 2021),
choose 'Tune Vehicle' then 'continue'
'Advanced Tune' => 'Tune Select' => 'Modify Parameters'
There are three screen which you can now arrow down thru.
The current/first screen displays:
'Cooling Fans AC off'
'Cooling Fans AC on'
'Idle'
'MDS'
Once you made your choices, follow the prompts to load the changes/tune to the pcm. The existing tune reloads with the changes. It does not unload the tune that already installed albeit stock or other. This is where MDS gets turned on/off and fan setting are changed if you opt to run a cooler t-stat. The other screens contain Rev & Speed Limits, Throttle, Tire Size, Traction Control, Transmission, WOT Fuel, WOT Spark.
Mines a 2005 5.7, some differences but we both have the same i3 and it was fairly straight forward. In fact, that was the sole reason for my purchase. The mds system was full of gremlins and way too much was already spent trying to fix.... a few touches on the i3 and it's off.
After verifying that it eliminated my problem, the 87 octane tune was loaded... 18-19 mpg on regular.
My i3 p/n is 8345, if that's what you bought then....
After verifying that it eliminated my problem, the 87 octane tune was loaded... 18-19 mpg on regular.
My i3 p/n is 8345, if that's what you bought then....
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Is that in town or on the highway?
So I double checked for anything regarding mds or active fuel management. And there's nothing like that. I might have to contact tech support. I had to use them just to get the wifi working they might have to send me an update for it
When the oem tune was backed up, I went looking around.... think my path was Tune, Advanced (options?) and there were a number of features that could be set.
Wish I could reload the oem tune and retrace my steps, but I can't risk kicking the hornets nest. To many gremlins running about and so far as the mds, they're leaving it alone... I did look thru the menu again, but as mds was turned off and the 87 octane tune loaded... the mds option isn't there anymore. Diablo tech support seemed knowledgeable. I spoke with them prior to my purchase... Hope you get it worked out soon.
@magnuman just got back from a 1200 mile trip. Worst was just over 20 and the best was 21.4 mpg.
Wish I could reload the oem tune and retrace my steps, but I can't risk kicking the hornets nest. To many gremlins running about and so far as the mds, they're leaving it alone... I did look thru the menu again, but as mds was turned off and the 87 octane tune loaded... the mds option isn't there anymore. Diablo tech support seemed knowledgeable. I spoke with them prior to my purchase... Hope you get it worked out soon.
@magnuman just got back from a 1200 mile trip. Worst was just over 20 and the best was 21.4 mpg.
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Ouch!! What speed are you driving at most of the time? Any mountainous driving? Turning off the MDS on either of mine costs me about 2 mpg. With my tunes, on the highway at the sweet spot (~63-68 mph) my MDS is active between 90-95% of the time. Almost all of my driving is from 2400-7000 ft., I almost always drive between 65-70 mph and my fuel economy is waaaay better. Wonder what's up with that on yours?
What type oil are you using? Do you have any performance/economy type mods other than the tuner? What is the altitude where you are? What type of exhaust system? Alignment and tire pressure? Have you tried the different "canned" tunes and other settings in your tuner? Both of my 5.7's run my "custom" engine and transmission tunes which are HP Tuner modified 91/93 octane Superchips and/or Diablosport tunes. To do something like this though, you'd need to have a way of reading live data, especially MAP/IAT readings, knock retard, upstream oxygen sensors, and the fuel mixture and tuning maps. In the winter months at my altitudes I still use 87 non-ethanol and, in the summer months (95-110*F) I almost always run 91 non-ethanol. At lower temperatures, I'll alternate 87 and 91 non-ethanol. If non-ethanol is not available on highway trips, I almost always use Chevron fuels if available. At higher altitudes (above about 5000 ft.), with these tunes, I am sometimes able to run 85 octane.
@magnuman " Ouch!!...."
My cruising speed is 70mph +/- a few. Speed limit in CT is 65 and if you’re doing less than 70… even at 80 they’ll be someone climbing into your tailpipe. There isn’t much elevation… at least not here or along I-95. Perhaps a few hundred feet. Not sure the why’s of it, but mileage is best 75-80 mph. That was my impression commuting, and this trip confirmed it. It’s also worth mentioning that much of the road was posted at a limit of 70, so 75-80 is the flow of the left lane.
This car has only been mine a few months, so still bone stock. The 80+ y.o. gent who traded it in was the 2nd owner and it became his in 08 w/34k. It has 158k miles on it and no shortage of problems due to age. Malfunctioning MDS was the ride home surprise. From the gremlins in the wiper motor to the waterbed effects of the suspension & sound effects of the power steering… she’s in need of much TLC. That said, it wintered in Florida, summered in Maine, and came with a stack of receipts. It’s clean, got regular service, and will be worth the effort to restore stability & reliability…then it’s time to tune. The i3 solved the mds issues, and loading Diablo's 87 octane/mpg tune lets me burn regular ($3.50) and get the mileage such as it is. Beyond that, no other tunes have been tried.
The tires on it now are Blizzaks, set at 30 psi. It’s a soft compound and my best hope for traction this winter but certainly not ideal for highway speeds, nor economy. No alignment issues, per the guys at Town Fair Tire. So far as oil goes: I’ve used Penzoil for years and continue with their Full Synthetic 5-20w + 1 qt of Marvel. It’s no Mystery why…lol. Grandpa always included a can, and he taught Pop to do the same, and the tradition lives on ;-). If for no other reason, I flash back in time as it’s poured in.
We only get blended fuel here. Racing fuel can be bought, but you can’t pump it into your car. The air quality sucks, so if we don’t comply then federal funding vanishes… The winter blend is the worst and results in a 1mpg drop. My ’13 300 Base would loose almost 2 mpg, but part of that was the awd engaging below 40 degrees. We get 87, 89 & 91 octanes to choose from. Around here, it’s all Mobil. At least it’s their fuel that comes via the tankers. It becomes Shell, Gulf or other when they pour their magic additives into it. The only gas that I’d ever experienced a real difference with is Amoco premium white, but they’re not in the area anymore. So it’s 87 for mine albeit here or on the road.
I don’t think live data can be viewed via the i3. In any event, there’s too much to address prior to engine tuning. My ’13 gave me 22-23 mpg summer, ‘round 19 during the winter. That was a Pentastar awd, and so getting 20-21 on a trip & 18-19 commuting with a hemi is tolerable… for now. Given how crazy the car market is in this area, and the misfortune of totaling a ‘winter ready’ car as winter started… I consider myself lucky to have found this old gal. Better days to come.
My cruising speed is 70mph +/- a few. Speed limit in CT is 65 and if you’re doing less than 70… even at 80 they’ll be someone climbing into your tailpipe. There isn’t much elevation… at least not here or along I-95. Perhaps a few hundred feet. Not sure the why’s of it, but mileage is best 75-80 mph. That was my impression commuting, and this trip confirmed it. It’s also worth mentioning that much of the road was posted at a limit of 70, so 75-80 is the flow of the left lane.
This car has only been mine a few months, so still bone stock. The 80+ y.o. gent who traded it in was the 2nd owner and it became his in 08 w/34k. It has 158k miles on it and no shortage of problems due to age. Malfunctioning MDS was the ride home surprise. From the gremlins in the wiper motor to the waterbed effects of the suspension & sound effects of the power steering… she’s in need of much TLC. That said, it wintered in Florida, summered in Maine, and came with a stack of receipts. It’s clean, got regular service, and will be worth the effort to restore stability & reliability…then it’s time to tune. The i3 solved the mds issues, and loading Diablo's 87 octane/mpg tune lets me burn regular ($3.50) and get the mileage such as it is. Beyond that, no other tunes have been tried.
The tires on it now are Blizzaks, set at 30 psi. It’s a soft compound and my best hope for traction this winter but certainly not ideal for highway speeds, nor economy. No alignment issues, per the guys at Town Fair Tire. So far as oil goes: I’ve used Penzoil for years and continue with their Full Synthetic 5-20w + 1 qt of Marvel. It’s no Mystery why…lol. Grandpa always included a can, and he taught Pop to do the same, and the tradition lives on ;-). If for no other reason, I flash back in time as it’s poured in.
We only get blended fuel here. Racing fuel can be bought, but you can’t pump it into your car. The air quality sucks, so if we don’t comply then federal funding vanishes… The winter blend is the worst and results in a 1mpg drop. My ’13 300 Base would loose almost 2 mpg, but part of that was the awd engaging below 40 degrees. We get 87, 89 & 91 octanes to choose from. Around here, it’s all Mobil. At least it’s their fuel that comes via the tankers. It becomes Shell, Gulf or other when they pour their magic additives into it. The only gas that I’d ever experienced a real difference with is Amoco premium white, but they’re not in the area anymore. So it’s 87 for mine albeit here or on the road.
I don’t think live data can be viewed via the i3. In any event, there’s too much to address prior to engine tuning. My ’13 gave me 22-23 mpg summer, ‘round 19 during the winter. That was a Pentastar awd, and so getting 20-21 on a trip & 18-19 commuting with a hemi is tolerable… for now. Given how crazy the car market is in this area, and the misfortune of totaling a ‘winter ready’ car as winter started… I consider myself lucky to have found this old gal. Better days to come.
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Marvel Mystery Oil....can't believe that stuff is still around, LOL. Yep, your winter tires and the winter fuels are probably reducing the economy by at least 2-3 mpg. Both of mine drop in the winter too, but I don't change tires, as our weather normally isn't that severe. I think, with my 05 Maggie, another difference is that I've installed a Getrag 3.06 Limited Slip Differential in lieu of the stock "peg leg" 2.82 set up. This raises my cruise RPM upward by about 400 RPM which puts it a little farther into the power curve with the cam that I am using in it. On my Jeep, changing the gears wasn't really an option (too costly), so I run the 6 speed transmission in 5th gear. This puts the RPM about the same as Maggie's at cruise.
I think, that once you've gone through everything, especially a good tune (use only copper core plugs), you'll see more improvement. (I'd do a baseline compression check at this time too.) I think, if I were you, I'd "tinker" with the other tunes a bit too to see if they may give you some improvements. Does your tuner allow you to modify the fuel mixture and timing tables in the different RPM ranges? I know my earlier (circa 2006-2009) Diablosport tuners allow this. If yours does, you may then want to experiment with different settings, mainly the timing. To do this, you should have a way to monitor knock retard though. In your "tinkering" you'd maybe also want to experiment with 89 octane, which is what was the original recommended fuel for the early Hemi's. On a stocker, I wouldn't try 91 though, as it for sure wouldn't do you any good. The 89 may allow you to run more timing and improve fuel economy a bit but, along with this, you'd want to check the mpg to see if there is enough gain to offset the increased fuel price. With the Dashawks on both of mine, I am able to monitor almost everything (fuel trims, timing, MAP readings, O2 Sensors, etc.) in real time, so it's real easy to see what's going on at all times.
One other thing you may want to think about is adding an MDS "on" light so you can monitor the MDS activity. It'll help teach you what/when/why the MDS is active and allow you to make adjustments to your driving techniques to maximize its active time. I came up with this mod. back in 2005 over on the LXforums. The install is the same for all early LX platform vehicles. (MDS "ON" Light Installation Guide *)
I think, that once you've gone through everything, especially a good tune (use only copper core plugs), you'll see more improvement. (I'd do a baseline compression check at this time too.) I think, if I were you, I'd "tinker" with the other tunes a bit too to see if they may give you some improvements. Does your tuner allow you to modify the fuel mixture and timing tables in the different RPM ranges? I know my earlier (circa 2006-2009) Diablosport tuners allow this. If yours does, you may then want to experiment with different settings, mainly the timing. To do this, you should have a way to monitor knock retard though. In your "tinkering" you'd maybe also want to experiment with 89 octane, which is what was the original recommended fuel for the early Hemi's. On a stocker, I wouldn't try 91 though, as it for sure wouldn't do you any good. The 89 may allow you to run more timing and improve fuel economy a bit but, along with this, you'd want to check the mpg to see if there is enough gain to offset the increased fuel price. With the Dashawks on both of mine, I am able to monitor almost everything (fuel trims, timing, MAP readings, O2 Sensors, etc.) in real time, so it's real easy to see what's going on at all times.
One other thing you may want to think about is adding an MDS "on" light so you can monitor the MDS activity. It'll help teach you what/when/why the MDS is active and allow you to make adjustments to your driving techniques to maximize its active time. I came up with this mod. back in 2005 over on the LXforums. The install is the same for all early LX platform vehicles. (MDS "ON" Light Installation Guide *)
@magnuman "Does your tuner allow you to modify the fuel mixture and timing tables..."
Honestly, I've not explored the i3 beyond turning off the mds and loading the canned mpg tune. The weather and timing of this 'new to me' car couldn't be worse, so it went to the shop. I needed to stop bleeding $$ and the i3 amounted to only a few hours shop time. He's a great guy, and I trust his work, but trouble shooting electric/electronics along with all the rest of what was needed... I've been their and the cans of worms keep appearing. So now that its relatively stable, I just put gas in, check the fluids & pressure... and hold my breath that we can get along till the grass grows again.
"The 89 may allow you to run more timing and improve fuel economy... "
Indeed. Lots of experimenting to be done. It was getting 89 for the first few weeks, but with mds malfunctioning it's not a base for comparison. That said, this Diablo mpg tune provides the same mpg so loosing MDS and running 87 hasn't been a step back... The Dash Hawk is intriguing. Toys like that stir me, but I must stay focused on the priorities for now (and rebuild a war chest). Fair warning: when the time comes to play, I'll likely be picking your brain clean like a Thanksgiving turkey.
"...adding an MDS "on" light..."
Your post is already in pdf format, and tucked away in my digital car-archive along with that O2 sensor thread. I stumbled upon the 'on light' when first trying to understand mds: Golden! You've shared a wealth of information in these forums, and likely helped far more than you could know. It's very much appreciated.
Have a Safe & Happy New Years!
Honestly, I've not explored the i3 beyond turning off the mds and loading the canned mpg tune. The weather and timing of this 'new to me' car couldn't be worse, so it went to the shop. I needed to stop bleeding $$ and the i3 amounted to only a few hours shop time. He's a great guy, and I trust his work, but trouble shooting electric/electronics along with all the rest of what was needed... I've been their and the cans of worms keep appearing. So now that its relatively stable, I just put gas in, check the fluids & pressure... and hold my breath that we can get along till the grass grows again.
"The 89 may allow you to run more timing and improve fuel economy... "
Indeed. Lots of experimenting to be done. It was getting 89 for the first few weeks, but with mds malfunctioning it's not a base for comparison. That said, this Diablo mpg tune provides the same mpg so loosing MDS and running 87 hasn't been a step back... The Dash Hawk is intriguing. Toys like that stir me, but I must stay focused on the priorities for now (and rebuild a war chest). Fair warning: when the time comes to play, I'll likely be picking your brain clean like a Thanksgiving turkey.
"...adding an MDS "on" light..."
Your post is already in pdf format, and tucked away in my digital car-archive along with that O2 sensor thread. I stumbled upon the 'on light' when first trying to understand mds: Golden! You've shared a wealth of information in these forums, and likely helped far more than you could know. It's very much appreciated.
Have a Safe & Happy New Years!
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Thank you....and you and your family as well. Also, Happy New Year to the entire 300C forum family.
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What if my i3 doesn't let me use "modify parameters"? It's gray shaded along with "install custom tune"
Welcome to the forum,
The path listed in my previous post is correct. The i3 is model #8345 for an '05, and so if you have the correct i3 and followed that path... then it's a question to ask Diablo support, as the option should be active.
Another thought, and not certain but figure it worth sharing... if you're ride is a mix of years... if there's been engine ecu swap or such, it might be an issue. Also, have you loaded a tune with it... if it was bought used, and you've not loaded with it... it could still be married to the previous owners ride. In any event, give Diablo a call. They've proven quite helpful, in my experience.
Do post back when it's resolved. It helps others who may be dealing with the same or similar. Thanks
The path listed in my previous post is correct. The i3 is model #8345 for an '05, and so if you have the correct i3 and followed that path... then it's a question to ask Diablo support, as the option should be active.
Another thought, and not certain but figure it worth sharing... if you're ride is a mix of years... if there's been engine ecu swap or such, it might be an issue. Also, have you loaded a tune with it... if it was bought used, and you've not loaded with it... it could still be married to the previous owners ride. In any event, give Diablo a call. They've proven quite helpful, in my experience.
Do post back when it's resolved. It helps others who may be dealing with the same or similar. Thanks
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Hey Grump, is that city or highway, ethanol or non, and what is your altitude and terrain like where you drive the most? Have you tried the other tunes? Any other mods?
Commuting highway miles. Only about 10% of my monthly driving is local. Dense area, so speed ranges from a crawl to 80+ depending on construction, accidents, and a$$holes. The mileage sucks, but it's no worse than my former 2013 Pentistar was getting. On a steady run going interstate, it'll get 23-24. Just running local, it's 15 or less.
Altitude ranges from sea level to 1k feet, with long grades and moderate hills. All the fuel around here is a blend of at least 10%... winter blend might be higher. The snow tires (Blizzacks) are on, which doesn't help. And mds is still not working.
Two sets of mds solenoids, and still no joy. Wires are sound, can test toggle each solenoid thru the odb port... but get out on the road, and it doesn't re-engage. I'm suspect there's a mechanical issue, but the lifters won't get replaced till the heads/cam are done.
It runs very well with the 87-tune, so I've not been inclined to try others. Bitter cold or hazy hot & humid, it's starts quick, idles fine, and has no hesitation.
No mods to the engine yet. It will remain stock till the rest of the car is gone thru... then it's time to do the cam, timing set, oil pump, heads... You're ride is my roll model. Will do the same FRI cam, advanced as you did. Likely won't port the heads, but will get the seats done. Hopefully there's better mileage at that point, or at least that's when my focus will be on improving it.
This summer, there's rust under the trunk (of all places) and a front end to be done. The brakes & differential if all goes well. Summer of 2024 the mill will have near 200k, and it'll be time. But then again, the best laid plans of mice & men...lol
Altitude ranges from sea level to 1k feet, with long grades and moderate hills. All the fuel around here is a blend of at least 10%... winter blend might be higher. The snow tires (Blizzacks) are on, which doesn't help. And mds is still not working.
Two sets of mds solenoids, and still no joy. Wires are sound, can test toggle each solenoid thru the odb port... but get out on the road, and it doesn't re-engage. I'm suspect there's a mechanical issue, but the lifters won't get replaced till the heads/cam are done.
It runs very well with the 87-tune, so I've not been inclined to try others. Bitter cold or hazy hot & humid, it's starts quick, idles fine, and has no hesitation.
No mods to the engine yet. It will remain stock till the rest of the car is gone thru... then it's time to do the cam, timing set, oil pump, heads... You're ride is my roll model. Will do the same FRI cam, advanced as you did. Likely won't port the heads, but will get the seats done. Hopefully there's better mileage at that point, or at least that's when my focus will be on improving it.
This summer, there's rust under the trunk (of all places) and a front end to be done. The brakes & differential if all goes well. Summer of 2024 the mill will have near 200k, and it'll be time. But then again, the best laid plans of mice & men...lol
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