Chrysler 300C & SRT8 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
This was posted awhile ago. I think the consensus that proper maintenance and keeping the rpm's at or near 1500 is the most helpful to eleviate issues with the cam/lifters.

I personally swithed to full synthetic 5w-30 oil with a very efficient filter without any issues with MDS. This weight was specified from 2004. Hope it helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
in the manual it puts a lot of emphasis on using 5w20 as being the engineered pubricant... i.e. the engine was engineered specifically for 5w20... if oil is too thick, it might not flow into tight-tolerance machined spaces?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
This was posted awhile ago. I think the consensus that proper maintenance and keeping the rpm's at or near 1500 is the most helpful to eleviate issues with the cam/lifters.

I personally swithed to full synthetic 5w-30 oil with a very efficient filter without any issues with MDS. This weight was specified from 2004. Hope it helps.
other manuals i have had for other various vehicles specify a few types of oil that can be used depending on climate, etc, but this manual seems to insist on ONLY 5w20, and specifies to ONLY use full synthetic.

So, you're engine didn't used to run on full synthetic?

Wouldn't that void warranty, etc?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
When the MDS was first introduced I believe the manuals stated 5w-20 preferred. 5w-30 acceptable if the other wasn't available. I haven't had any issues with using 5w-30 with either the MDS or engine as a whole. Actually the tick has quieted down and the engine as a whole.

My car is out of warantee. But I did hear that codes would come up if the oil was the wrong weight. I haven't had any of these either.

Engine bearing lubrication would be better with a light oil. The bearing have not chaged since the engine was first introduced in 2003/4.

The valve train actually does better with thicker oil. Which is why I switched to 5w-30.

My manuel was very specific about the wrong weigh oil affecting the MDS system. In my car the thicker oil didn't affect the system or throw any codes. Being initially, 5w-30 was acceptable in the early years (although not preferred by Chrysler), I tend to think the 5w-20 oil was for corporate average fuel economy.

Again regular maintenance no matter what oil grade is more important in keeping these hemi's happy!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
That video is complete BS, Uncle Tony has no F'n idea what he's talking about. If you're curious there's some videos from a youtuber called Darth Hemi debunking Tony.

As for oil weight, the single most telling piece of information is that the 6.4 srt8 300 specifies 0W40. While of course the 6.4 has differences, among them being piston oil squirters and an oil cooler. The 6.4 uses the same MDS and VVT parts. The same lifters, same solenoids, etc. So what many people say about 5W20 being required because of the MDS and VVT can't be true. The lifter roller failure is also a lot rarer in 6.4 engines. My personal belief is that the 5W20 requirement is almost entirely a MPG thing.

That said I'm told there's an algorithm in the ECU that compares RPM, oil temperature, and oil pressure. And that if what it sees is too far outside of expected parameters it will throw a code. However many people like 2015Chrysler300c are running 30 without issue. I've heard of people who run 40 in a 5.7 though throwing a code. Personally right now I have 5W20 Redline in my 2014. But I bought a case of 0W30 for my next oil change.

Redline is a very high quality oil that has been shown to do a lot of good for the hemi. There's reports of people with ticking engines quieting them by switching to Redline. Mine doesn't tick, but I've been a fan of the Redline company and their innovative products for a very long time. It's not hard to convince me to spend the extra money for their oil.

As for the cause of the roller failure and if you should worry. A lot depends on what year your engine is. There's several versions of the lifter, newer versions have little to worry about. It's hard to find details but it sounds like as early as 2014 they started installing the AC lifter. This was the first version with larger needle bearings. Check out this video to see what I'm talking about

There's no lubrication design failures in the hemi, quite the opposite really, much of the design is very good. The failures are elsewhere....
1. The lifter should have been more robust, larger bearings, better quality control, etc. This Chrysler learned the hard way and dealt with it. The introduction of VVT in 2009 also introduced a much more aggressive cam profile but they retailed the same lifters.
2. The factory oil change system and recommendations were lacking. The oil change indicator(before 2015) will let the car go 7000 hard miles before an oil change. And apparently had no consideration for idle time. So for example a cop car that would idle for hours then get floored to 100MPH then idle for hours again still went 7000 miles between changes.
3. Oil consumption, the factory PCV system consumes oil. So if the oil level is never checked between changes the likelihood of it being very low by the time it is changed is very high.

That said I have made a few changes to my car along these lines. As I mentioned the oil, I've also made tweaks to the computer to prevent low oil pressure. Bumped up some idle speed settings so it's never under 700RPM and lowered the fan temps so it doesn't heat up the oil when sitting with the AC on. I've also limited MDS application by lowering it's RPM limits and raising it's speed minimums.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Redline is a very high quality oil that has been shown to do a lot of good for the hemi. There's reports of people with ticking engines quieting them by switching to Redline. Mine doesn't tick, but I've been a fan of the Redline company and their innovative products for a very long time. It's not hard to convince me to spend the extra money for their oil. - Koben

I've been using Redline for the engine, differential and trans for all my cars. Well worth the money!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
My manuel was very specific about the wrong weigh oil affecting the MDS system. In my car the thicker oil didn't affect the system or throw any codes. Being initially, 5w-30 was acceptable in the early years (although not preferred by Chrysler), I tend to think the 5w-20 oil was for corporate average fuel economy.

Again regular maintenance no matter what oil grade is more important in keeping these hemi's happy!
So,if it's more important to me that my engine last "forever", you're suggesting that 5w30 is better in the long run for WEAR, versus 5w20 being better for MPG (but NOT for wear)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
That video is complete BS, Uncle Tony has no F'n idea what he's talking about. If you're curious there's some videos from a youtuber called Darth Hemi debunking Tony.
i'm very interested. Do you have a link to that video?

So, if tony is wrong, what DOES explain the wear he is talking about? I mean, somewhere in there it sure feels like chrysler is wrong in their design. Why? There seem to be motors out there, which if properly maintained can easily run for 300,000+ miles and not have things like vale train be considered a replace-maintenance item. i.e. the valvetrain installed @ zero miles is the same one there at +300,000miles. No?


I mean, it reads like bad engineering or manufacturing for that kind of problem to happen in the first place.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
So,if it's more important to me that my engine last "forever", you're suggesting that 5w30 is better in the long run for WEAR, versus 5w20 being better for MPG (but NOT for wear)?
I personally believe that 5w-30 is a prferred oil for my car. The tenths of mpg lost is not an issue for me. If it was I'd by another car or a V-6 version. Forever is an awful ling time, but I think the engine will be fine for as long as I own it. Again the key is maintenance, maintenance, and maintenance.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
I believe I saw in another post of yours that your car is a 2008? If so you need not worry about the lifter thing. Sure it's a possibility but it's VEEEEEERY rare on a pre-eagle(2009) engine. You're much more likely to drop a seat. In 2009 Chrysler started installing a much more aggressive camshaft to go along with the VVT, this is part of the cause of the lifter issue. If you don't have a 2009 or newer engine you don't have that camshaft and won't have lifter issues.

i'm very interested. Do you have a link to that video?
I already linked probably the most important video, there's three others, here's another.

So, if tony is wrong, what DOES explain the wear he is talking about? I mean, somewhere in there it sure feels like chrysler is wrong in their design. Why? There seem to be motors out there, which if properly maintained can easily run for 300,000+ miles and not have things like vale train be considered a replace-maintenance item. i.e. the valvetrain installed @ zero miles is the same one there at +300,000miles. No?
You have the answer right there, it's mostly a maintenance issue. Too long between oil changes, cheap oil/filters, not checking oil between changes, etc.

There's contributing factors, the more aggressive camshaft, the roller bearings needed to be larger and from 2014 on are. There also appears to have been some quality control issues from 2011-2013, too aggressive parameters on the MDS to maximize fuel, and no oil cooler combined with thin oil in a hot engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Forever is an awful ling time, but I think the engine will be fine for as long as I own it. Again the key is maintenance, maintenance, and maintenance.....
it's just that i only like this body style, and i found one that's perfect. I wanted one since 2005. I just like how they look, and i hope it's not a maintenance nightmare. I somehow hot lucky and got basically every single feature i wanted and then some. Super thankful!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I believe I saw in another post of yours that your car is a 2008? If so you need not worry about the lifter thing. Sure it's a possibility but it's VEEEEEERY rare on a pre-eagle(2009) engine. You're much more likely to drop a seat. In 2009 Chrysler started installing a much more aggressive camshaft to go along with the VVT, this is part of the cause of the lifter issue. If you don't have a 2009 or newer engine you don't have that camshaft and won't have lifter issues.


I already linked probably the most important video, there's three others, here's another.


You have the answer right there, it's mostly a maintenance issue. Too long between oil changes, cheap oil/filters, not checking oil between changes, etc.

There's contributing factors, the more aggressive camshaft, the roller bearings needed to be larger and from 2014 on are. There also appears to have been some quality control issues from 2011-2013, too aggressive parameters on the MDS to maximize fuel, and no oil cooler combined with thin oil in a hot engine.

Will it make any difference that the 2008 300c AWD i found has Sever Duty Cooling system I? [as far as valve seats dropping from overheating, or whyever they drop]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
I am pretty sure they fixed the valve seat issue sometime in 2007. About the only ones I've heard of are mostly 05's and 06's and a few early 07's. I don't believe I've heard of any 08's dropping seats......doesn't mean it can't happen though if you get it hot enough. Overheating is, at least, a contributing factor in the seat drops.

Grab the Severe Duty Cooling system, stick a 190* thermostat in it and reset the cooling fan start temps. to, Low=197*;Medium=203*; High=208*. All three of my Hemi's are set up this way (I use Napa Auto thermostats) and I've never seen any of mine higher than 214*.I have DashHawks on all three and can monitor temps (and a bunch of other stuff) in real time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
Will it make any difference that the 2008 300c AWD i found has Sever Duty Cooling system I? [as far as valve seats dropping from overheating, or whyever they drop]
I defer to magnuman, he'd know more about this subject than I. I'd only add that Water Wetter is a great product worth looking into. But do the research as it relates to your coolant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I defer to magnuman, he'd know more about this subject than I. I'd only add that Water Wetter is a great product worth looking into. But do the research as it relates to your coolant.
is that the coolant jay leno uses in all his rides?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Grab the Severe Duty Cooling system, stick a 190* thermostat in it and reset the cooling fan start temps. to, Low=197*;Medium=203*; High=208*. All three of my Hemi's are set up this way (I use Napa Auto thermostats) and I've never seen any of mine higher than 214*.I have DashHawks on all three and can monitor temps (and a bunch of other stuff) in real time.
The 2008 300c AWD car i bought has the Sever Duty Cooling Cooling I system in it.

How do i find that thermostat? Do i just tell a dealer i want a compatible 190°F thermostat for this car, or do dealers not support that kind of substitution?

Also, how are you adjusting low/med/high points? Tuner? Does this mean buying a tuner like a diablosport i3, or something like that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
The Severe Duty Cooling Systems came with the tow package, so they're fairly common on the 5.7's. The thermostat is located near the top front of the engine under the housing that the top radiator hose hooks to. I would stay away from dealers (many call them "stealers"), because their prices are about double what you can get them for at your local parts house. I use Napa Auto ones in all of my Hemi's and have never had any issues and they seem to regulate the temperatures more closely than some of the others (Motorad) that I've tried..

To adjust the cooling fan start temps. you'll need some sort of scanner or handheld tuner that includes that function. I believe both the Diabosport and Superchips handhelds have this capability, but make sure it does before you drop the coin on one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Magnuman has made a very good point. Tuneneeds rs can be quite expensive, so check what functions they provide and if the PCM needs to be unlocked... I think starting 2015 Chrysler locked their PCM's. When I save enough coin, I'm going for a 180 degree thermostat and tuner that can adjust fan settings and the MDS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
is that the coolant jay leno uses in all his rides?
IDK about Leno, Water Wetter is a coolant additive that greatly increases heat transfer between metal and water. I know it sounds like snake oil but it's not, the stuff is awesome. Given that a dropped seat is likely in part caused by the head being hot, an additive that would help move the heat from the aluminum sounds very worthwhile.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top