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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi folks, my car let me down today and it can't be driven until its problem is sorted.

Basically when I put the keys in the ignition the engine initially turned over but within seconds it cut out. The same happened on the second try but on the third try the starter didn't turn.

Also the steering wheel is not locking. Normally you would hear a noise when the steering wheel unlocks as you insert the keys into barrel. I believe its now permanently unlocked.

I got the car recovered and when I got home I tried the spare key but its the same, its not turning.

I plugged in the predator and its showing codes p0685 and also p0513, listed as 'ecm/pcm power relay control circuit/OPEN' and the other as 'incorrect immobilizer key' on the predator.

What could possibly be wrong and where is the ecm/pcm power relay circuit??????
 

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I seem to remember the TPMS receivers in the wheelarches throwing this problem up. God knows how but they are linked into the immobilser circuit. What with all this wet weather might be worth pulling the connections on them cleaning them up and giving them a squirt of WD40 or try disconnecting the plugs to them clear the codes and then give it a try. Wont cost anything anyway best of luck mate
 

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FYI They are situated here both sides a bolt in the bottom hole and hooked into the top hole mine is hanging down out of sight in this pic had to remove it to get to the washer pump. Just looked at the drawings and they are linked into the immobilser circuit though god knows why
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks buddy, I'll check that first thing tomorrow morning. It could have been my handy work a few weeks back when I was messing around with the foglights so it could have got disturb then when I remove the splash back.

The predator is also showing ecm/pcm relay, any ideas which one it is or what it is?

Had to call out a lowbed to recovery the car, it was a sad sight :(
 

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Shit,that's what happened to mine....twice....it's that f00kin immobiliser....took them 6 weeks each time to find and fix it and it costs..a lot....not funny
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Shit,that's what happened to mine....twice....it's that f00kin immobiliser....took them 6 weeks each time to find and fix it and it costs..a lot....not funny
I'm worried now, 6 weeks......Which component did the Chrysler eventually pin it down to? My steering wheel not locking, did yours do the same. I'm assuming thats what they call the wcm?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

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To those of technical bent, the attached article provides an interesting insight into the complexities of TPMS. In particular, it offers an explanation of why TPMS is integrated with Remote Key Entry Systems. The main purpose seems to be the facilitating of setting up and testing TPMS on the automotive production line. It should also be noted that TPMS and Remote Keys use the same 434MHz frequency allocation.
 

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I'm worried now, 6 weeks......Which component did the Chrysler eventually pin it down to? My steering wheel not locking, did yours do the same. I'm assuming thats what they call the wcm?
The first time they replaced the wcm,the sentry ring 5 or 6 times and a few other things before they found it was Summat to do with the TPMS receiver,2nd time they tried the same but with no joy,so they replaced every ECU in my car,it now thinks its a 2006 not a 2005....still took the 6 weeks?
Not sure on my steering wheel not locking...I never checked just thought bollox,not again...2 nd time was under warranty,first time wasn't and they said they did me a favour as I'm trade and raped me of £1100,charged me 2 hrs labour,it was the bits that cost,the PCM and the wcm are one hit wonders,if they screw up reprogramming it screws them up and they have to get another one,that's why I'm scouring,begging people if they can reprogramme the immobiliser to bypass it completely....I'll suffer the consequences of theft after
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Is there anyway of testing the tpms. Also I guess, if it goes into Chryslers the predator tune needs to be removed??? and doing so will this remove the fault codes?
 

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Yes,take the predator out and put it back to factory and no it won't get rid of the codes,the fault is a solid fault not a ghost fault,if by chance the fault code goes....which it won't... Just try starting the car again and the fault will rush back right in there
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Just an update, the steering wheel decided to lock a little while ago, so won't be able to steer the thing although you can cycle the keys in the barrel and everything powers up.

I also removed the front tpms receiver each side and gave a good clean. No difference. I think there is onemore somewhere behind the rear splash guard to the rear wheels but didn't get round to check that.

Assuming no further programming will be required, would it be worth the gamble to remove all the pieces from ONE known similar working donar car, pcm, wcm & keys, spare tpms's and transplant them all in ???? I wonder if it would work, might be able to get hold of the parts from the breakers.
 

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I was looking at a post from a while back about the complexitys of the immobilsers on our cars. It states from the service manual that the lock is part of the column and not replaceable on its own and if you have to replace the WCM/SKREEM (the bit that surrounds the lock and recognises the key) then you also have to replace the lock which presumably means you have to replace the whole column:Eyecrazy:. they reckon this is because on initial power up the WCM sends the lock a unique code that is not readable or retrievable. I dont know if this is actually the case i cant recall anyone on here with starting / immobilser problems having to have the whole column replaced. Have you tried starting it with the TPMS recievers disconnected i seem to remember this worked on Rays initial immobilser fault. Do you think the steering locked when you unplugged the receivers to clean the connections?. What it really needs is someone with the knowledge and know how to bypass the whole system otherwise this could be the death knell of these cars in a few years time:mad:None of us on here if we are truthful have the know how or understanding of this system or canbus in general and in my opinion when you take it to a dealer they dont really understand it either they flaff around with this part and that part (because they have access to them) till they get it to run. Things have got far to complicated since my days in the trade and yes the main dealer "techies" as they call them have the product training but do half of them really understand it either i dont think they do. Anyway best of luck mate and i hope its not a wallet busting excercise.
 

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Chris,they didn't disconnect my TPMS they bypassed it...or so they said...they never replaced the lock as my old keys still fit and turn in the ignition they just won't start it,I have 5 sets of keys but only 2 sets start it,also the immobiliser runs through lanbus not canbus which really means electrickery and wizardry....I contacted an American company that states it could bypass the immobiliser but when I told them I had a UK model they said they were unsure that it would work and stopped replying to my emails....I reckon ( and I wish I knew how,lol) it will be such a stupid simple fix a bit like Al's swirl fix but alas I can't find anyone that can get their head around it....I know it's looking at me in the face and flicking the "V's" at me but I can't seem to fathom it out.....perhaps we need to think outside of the box....which I do a lot but at the moment it's beating me....and I so f00kin hate that.....lol
 

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I also removed the front tpms receiver each side and gave a good clean. No difference. I think there is onemore somewhere behind the rear splash guard to the rear wheels but didn't get round to check that.

Assuming no further programming will be required, would it be worth the gamble to remove all the pieces from ONE known similar working donar car, pcm, wcm & keys, spare tpms's and transplant them all in ???? I wonder if it would work, might be able to get hold of the parts from the breakers.
If you look closely at this "tpms receiver", you will see a label: "125kHz". This would seem to indicate that the component is not a UHF receiver, but an inductive coupler for the POD (Pressure on Demand) command channel. I doubt whether replacing all four of these couplers would solve your problem. As for some of the other modules, you may find that they have been coded for the donor car's VIN.
 

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Chris,they didn't disconnect my TPMS they bypassed it...or so they said...they never replaced the lock as my old keys still fit and turn in the ignition they just won't start it,I have 5 sets of keys but only 2 sets start it,also the immobiliser runs through lanbus not canbus which really means electrickery and wizardry....I contacted an American company that states it could bypass the immobiliser but when I told them I had a UK model they said they were unsure that it would work and stopped replying to my emails....I reckon ( and I wish I knew how,lol) it will be such a stupid simple fix a bit like Al's swirl fix but alas I can't find anyone that can get their head around it....I know it's looking at me in the face and flicking the "V's" at me but I can't seem to fathom it out.....perhaps we need to think outside of the box....which I do a lot but at the moment it's beating me....and I so f00kin hate that.....lol
Ray by lock i meant the actual column lock not the key barrel (No2 in pic) The manual states this is an integral part of the column and if the WCM is replaced this needs replacing at the same time because of the secret code i mentioned earlier. Glamorgan had this problem of no start or turn over a while back and they just replaced the WCM they told him they managed to "free" the column lock whatever that meant. I consider myself to be a competent multi skilled person having worked on cars for 20+ and other types of machinery both electrically and mechanically. A mate of mine at work who is a very competent electrician bought me a book in on the joys and working of Canbus/Lanbus it was about 3 inches thick and after about 2 pages my brain was addled:shysmile: I wonder how many "techys" at these main dealers really understand it fully not many would be my guess
 

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Ray, The thing to bear in mind is because our cars have the thatcham cat 1 alarm/immobiliser that incorporates the electronic locking steering column in the immobiliser sequence it will be pretty much impossible to bypass whilst the original pcm etc is fitted.

However the US cars do not have the same type of security. AFAIK no electronic steering column lock and only a older type transponder immobiliser like we used to have fitted years ago.

So i reckon the answer is to aquire and fit a pcm and matching ignition module from a US or other market car with basic security system, you could fit the full column or just disable the electronic lock on the uk car. these could be aquired from a wrecked car in the uk or from the US, the thing to bear in mind is the supplier in the US is unlikely to confirm that the parts will work on our cars so it is suck it and see.

Its possible that with a US pcm fitted with a standard immobiliser the ignition keys and transponder could be reprogrammed by a uk key programmer.

There is another alternative, in the US a pcm is available from specialists for fitting the engines into different cars and this should be doable but it may be pricey.

If i was in the position of having a screwed immobiliser i would be going this route. We just need someone to have the balls to give it a go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
If you look closely at this "tpms receiver", you will see a label: "125kHz". This would seem to indicate that the component is not a UHF receiver, but an inductive coupler for the POD (Pressure on Demand) command channel. I doubt whether replacing all four of these couplers would solve your problem. As for some of the other modules, you may find that they have been coded for the donor car's VIN.
I thought there were 3 tpms receivers, two at the fronts wheel fenders, and only 1 at the rear rightside behind the spashback? (125khz???)
 

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Fair point Al but i wonder if the steering column lock on our cars is actually removable from the column without destroying it? ie i wonder if you could just chisel it off because it seems to go into permanent lock mode when the immobilser goes tits up meaning it was unusable. By going this route you may have to use a US spec column aswell
 
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