[RDut]

OK All
When you were having the pulling problems with your "C" did feel it pulling the steering wheel to the right or was it just the car going to the right?? How did it feel when you were in the left lane?? Did it still pull/go to the right some, not at all or go to the left?? The dealer is trying to tell me that what we are feeling is the road crown, I'm sure a lot of you have heard that also, because he does not feel the steering wheel pulling to the right. All opinions would be appreciated

Cheers
Rob

 

[dkals]

I feel my car pulling to the right, not the steering wheel. My steering wheel is slightly cocked left versus dead center when driving straight. I need to get my car in and have this addressed also.

I have a hard time beleiving the road crowning story. Bought the wife a Honda Odyssey the day after the 300c purchase. Wheel base is almost just as long and just as wide. A freind at work has a 740 that I have driven, wheel base the same. Neither of those autos has a crowning problem.

 

[II kings 9:20]

My 05 Odyssey and 02 X5 follow the crown, the Odyssey after 2500 miles is straight on and the steering wheel shimmy is gone too. My C followed the crown right in the right lane and left in the left lane but seemed to be excessive, more so than the other cars. The steering wheel never pulled. I had the bolt kit done on the C even though I did not think I needed it, it helped the crown sensitivity, now with 4600 miles it is straight on without following the crown. This may be a tire/miles issue (not the right pull, only the crown following) that will improve, why? Other cars generally drive straight with 0 miles.

 

[5point7]

It took me taking a service tech on a drive with me - after their 3rd attempt to fix, mine is "livable" - but I still pull right, and it's not "crown" like the dealer states. The 2nd time they gave it back, I guarantee they didn't test drive after alinging (it was 10x worse than when I brought it in). That's when I took the tech on a drive and he said he could see and feel it from the passenger seat.

Ironically, I got the phone call for the 5 star survey after the 2nd time, and I don't receive the surveys anymore after I expressed my discontent.... makes you wonder...

 

[II kings 9:20]

5.7, have you thought about taking it to an alignment specialist and having it properly done. Might cost a few $$$ (heresy on a new car) but it might be the only way if these Bozos can't figure it out. On my 300E, I had 3 dealers in different states (on vacation) who could not figure out bad ball joints. One did an alignment, one did a steering shock and one said nothing wrong. It took a private Euro import shop to figure out the problem and fix it properly.

 

[Goose]

On mine, if i hold the stearing wheel straight the car goes slightly right. If I let go of the stearing wheel the car goes straight but the stearing wheel will be slightly of to the left. It is a car problem not a road problem, the dealer knows that.

 

[joey]

On December 1, my right lead(pull) was fixed first time with a simple alignment. My car was built in early August.

The before-and-after alignment sheet says my toe was out of whack.

While writing this response I looked at the Alignment Spec sheet that was given to me when I got my car back from the dealer. The Model type shown on the Alignment sheet for the Specified Range says "300 Series: 2000-04 (300M)".

So it appears the dealers may not have the 2005 300 alignment specs loaded in their computers and must be referring to manuals and/or some other online data base. Somehow my dealer knew the correct specs, because some of the specs are way out of range (see Caster below).

Is it possible some dealers are using the wrong specs? Maybe the specs for the 300M?

-----Caster Front Left------------------------------TSB--------------
Actual__Before__Specified Range_______Preferred Recommended Range
__8.8____9.9______2.0 to 4.0___________10.3______9.0 to 12.10

----Caster Front Right---------
Actual__Before__Specified Range
__11.1__10.5_____2.0 to 4.0___________11.10______9.0 to 12.10

---Cross Caster Front-----------
Actual__Before__Specified Range
_-2.4__-0.6_____-1.0 to 1.0___________-0.80______-1.3 to -0.50


Here are the TSB spec's. Anyone with the right lead/pull problem should verify the dealer used the correct alignment specs for the 2005 300.
But I don't know if these specs are still the recommended settings. They could have since changed.
http://www.dodgemagnum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2438

REVISED ALIGNMENT SPECIFICATIONS
FRONT WHEEL ALIGNMENT - PREFERRED SETTING - ACCEPTABLE RANGE
CAMBER - LEFT__________________ -0.1°_______ -0.60° to +0.40°
CAMBER - RIGHT________________ -0.20°_______ -0.70° to +0.30°
Cross-Camber___________________ 0.20°_______ -0.30 to +0.60°
CASTER - LEFT________________ +10.30°_______ +9.00° to +12.10°
CASTER - RIGHT_______________ +11.10°_______ +9.00° to +12.10°
Cross-Caster___________________ -0.80°_______ -1.30 to -0.50°
INDIVIDUAL TOE_________________ 0.10°________ -0.05° to +0.15°
TOTAL TOE**__________________ +0.20°________ 0.00° to +0.40°

 

[Dixietwister]

Use the Alignment spec's in the TSB. To adjust the caster and camber you have to shift the engine cradle. A pain in the ***. The dealer hates to spend the time required. A lot of places don't have the smarts. Get someone to adjust the right wheel CASTER about 1 degree more + than the left side. About +10 degrees left side and +11 degrees right side. Left wheel Camber should be about +0.3 degrees more positive than the right side. Aprox readings would be -0.1 degrees left side and -0.4 degrees right side. The preferred spec's in the TSB are real close. Don't let them just say they are within spec's. The car is too sensitive for that. A more positive right Caster will make the car turn left easier. A more positive left Camber will tend to make the car pull left. With a crown on the road, that's what you need it to do. Caster does not effect tire wear. Camber does effect tire wear, so I wouldn't go past about -0.5 on the right side. If you can't get the car right on with the preferred spec's, the Caster/Camber bolts can be purchased from Chrysler. Chrysler would not give me a set and wanted a high price. They could not tell me if they were about $50.00 Each or $50.00 a set. I had to take my car to "SEARS" and they let me hang out with the alignment guy, to tell him how to do the alignment. They will not have the proper spec's, so take a copy of the revised specs, with you. Insist on the preferred spec's. I was lucky enough to get a good alignment without having to use the bolts. Don't go anywhere that can't give you a computer printout. The printout will show you the before and after alignment spec's. Sears only charge $60.00 for a 4 wheel alignment and an additional $30.00 for a difficult alignment. Well worth the money. They will touch up the alignment as needed for 6 mo. Don't be suprised if they have to touch up the Toe adjustment after a week or so. Toe does effect tire wear and when your steering wheel is not centered, it probably indicates the Toe is out. Remember that the Toe is adjustable on the rear also. Hope I didn't give any bad info. One of you please fix any bad information, that I may have posted. Thanks Dixie

 

[Dixietwister]

Hey joey, You didn't show what your Toe and your Camber was. Your Caster was actually closer to spec before the alignment. What is important is that you do have camber and caster split, with it favoring a left pull condition. You had much more caster split than recommended after the alignment. The perferred is -0.8 with -1.3 Max. You had -2.4 degrees after alignment. Before the alignment was -0.6 which was only 0.2 degrees from the perferred and within spec. Well that will make it turn left easier, anyways.....

 

[HEMEEE]

Thanks for the info guys, mine is in the shop having the fix applied, and my service gal - Lola - told me that they would have to adjust the engine cradle to effect the fix correctly. Sounds like she knows what she's doing! I'll ask for the specs they used when we touch base next... if I ever get my car back..... sigh! Thanks again!

 

[joey]

Hey joey, You didn't show what your Toe and your Camber was. Your Caster was actually closer to spec before the alignment. What is important is that you do have camber and caster split, with it favoring a left pull condition. You had much more caster split than recommended after the alignment. The perferred is -0.8 with -1.3 Max. You had -2.4 degrees after alignment. Before the alignment was -0.6 which was only 0.2 degrees from the perferred and within spec. Well that will make it turn left easier, anyways.....

I was wondering the same thing - why was my Caster and Cross Caster so far out after they fixed my car? I even asked the question in this thread, but got no response.
http://www.300cforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1916&page=3&pp=10

As I was writing my first post above, I noticed the alignment spec sheet and the SPECIFIED RANGE must be for the 2000-04 300M, not the 2005 300. That would explain the strange Caster numbers. But as you mentioned, even my final Actual numbers are out of range per the TSB.

My only guess is the dealer knew from experience that using the TSB and/or other recommended settings would not fix the right lead/pull.

Or they test drove my car and found the recommended settings didn't fix the problem and they kept tweaking the alignment until they got it "fixed".
I haven't noticed any strange tire wear, yet.

Here are my alignment settings/results.


-----TOE Front Left------------------------------TSB--------------
Actual__Before__Specified Range_______Preferred Recommended Range
_0.04___0.29_____-0.10 to 1.0___________0.10_____-0.05 to 0.15

-----TOE Front Right---------
Actual__Before__Specified Range
__0.05__0.33_____-0.10 to 0.10_________ 0.10_____-0.05 to 0.15

---Total Toe Front-----------
Actual__Before__Specified Range
_0.08___0.62____-0.20 to 0.20___________0.20_____0.0 to 0.40




---Camber Front Left------------------------------TSB--------------
Actual__Before__Specified Range_______Preferred Recommended Range
_-.3____-.5_____-0.6 to 0.6___________-0.1_____-0.6 to 0.4

---Camber Front Right---------
Actual__Before__Specified Range
_-.4____-.3_____-0.6 to 0.6__________ -0.2_____-0.7 to 0.3

---Cross Camber Front-----------
Actual__Before__Specified Range
_0.2___-.2_____-0.7 to 0.7___________0.20______-0.3 to 0.60

 

[Dixietwister]

Your Toe was out but equal, probably was not causing the pull, but was causing uneven tire wear across the tread. You might be able to see the rubber, on tire, pulling from left to right. The Camber was more positive on the right side and was causing the pull. The car will pull to the side with the most positive Camber(within limits). They fixed the camber by making it more positive on the left side in respect to the right side. Still not as much split as the preferred. The more positive the caster is, the more the car wants to go straight. The less positive the caster, the lighter the front end will feel. They put a lot less caster on the left, so it makes it easier to hold to the left. Heck, I'm just quessing. It's been a while since I have been racing, and the old brain has lost it's edge. They can't adjust the camber and caster individually, without adding the offset caster/camber bolts. Both the camber and caster change togeather, on the C. You just loosen up the cradle and force it around, back and forth until you luck out. Then you hope it stays that way until you tighten up the bolts. Dixie

 

[joey]

Your explanations are new and interesting stuff for me. The only thing I knew was Toe. So I did some googling around and found these pictures.
These pics helped put it all together.
http://www.tireguides.com/tip14.html

 

[HaTaX]

Joey, awesome find on simple pictures that explain the different wheel alignment values... Now we just need that terrible equation for the thrust numbers... =)

 

[HEMEEE]

Dixie, great explanation... joey, excellent illustrations! Thank you both for the enlightenment, your timing is impeccable... I am now better armed for my trip back to the dealer.

 

[tekhen]

Once again the members come through!!

Thanks for the sharing of knowledge.

It reminds me of aligning a turbine/generator.

 

[Dixietwister]

Thanks HEMEEE, Hope it helped. Alignment can be hard to understand and even harder to explain. I have trouble spelling so I avoid using a lot of words, that would make explaining whats in the old brain, easier to understand.

HEMEEE, I always enjoy reading your post.

Thanks JOEY, for helping me out. It makes alignment a lot easier to understand.

 

[RDut]

Thanks all. We did have them check the alignment at the dealer and they said it was in spec. They had to order new pads, rotors for the front of the car so I told them we would drive it until the parts come in and then descide if I can live with it or want them to do the bolts. They told me that the bolts can actually make it worse then it is now, which is why I'm trying to get all the information I can now. Thanks again

Cheers
Rob

 

[joey]

Thanks all. We did have them check the alignment at the dealer and they said it was in spec. They had to order new pads, rotors for the front of the car so I told them we would drive it until the parts come in and then descide if I can live with it or want them to do the bolts. They told me that the bolts can actually make it worse then it is now, which is why I'm trying to get all the information I can now. Thanks again

Cheers
Rob

Ask them for the "in spec" alignment numbers. Then compare them to the TSB numbers. If my dealer used the spec numbers on the alignment sheet they gave me, they would have been using the incorrect 300M specs.

 

[RDut]

Thanks Joey I will do that if DC does not buy the car back like they are talking about now

Rob