I find all this discussion of brake rotors interesting. Drilled or slotted, drilled and slotted, stock, aftermarket, etc, etc, etc. What I don't see or hear on this form is any discussion on the part that the brake pads play in the the stopping effectiveness of any 300 braking system. The whole braking system must work as a unit or the results will be unpredictable. I don't care what rotors are used, with out the proper pads for the intended use the whole issue is mute.
Rotors
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Update
The issue I'm interested in is if the application of different brake pads have a demonstrated affect on the braking performance of the 300 series automobiles? If so what are those affects? There are any number of possible brake pad materials available from stock to metalic to carbon to ceramic/composite. What is the best balance for brake effectiveness, wear (both pad and rotor), dust, etc? I am looking to improve the all around performance od my 300C and braking is the first item I look in to when I'm proceeding to generate a balanced performance package. I want to be able to get out of trouble as fast as I get in to it.
I want to expand on the thread I started yesterday. I had to limit my comments due to alack of time.rocketman said:
The issue I'm interested in is if the application of different brake pads have a demonstrated affect on the braking performance of the 300 series automobiles? If so what are those affects? There are any number of possible brake pad materials available from stock to metalic to carbon to ceramic/composite. What is the best balance for brake effectiveness, wear (both pad and rotor), dust, etc? I am looking to improve the all around performance od my 300C and braking is the first item I look in to when I'm proceeding to generate a balanced performance package. I want to be able to get out of trouble as fast as I get in to it.
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450 Posts
When I test drove my brand new 300C before I bought it, I didn't like the brakes. The salesman/manager took it into the shop and the rotors were warped. After they replaced them, they were great. I was told installing wheels without torqueing them can cause rotor warping.
The higher the coefficient (Cf or Mu) the more effective the pad is. Think of it in the terms of sand paper- only the higher the number the more coarse. Sadly most companies don't offer you that data so you don't really have a clue what you are getting.
Street pads generally run about .38 to .40. Most "performance" pads run about .40-.47. Race pads run up to .65 or better.
What's all that mean on the car? In short, the more pad bite the more total rotor torque is generated with less required input pressure to make it happen. This can have an effect on the vehicles brake bias or braking balance as well. Most common is the hot rod pad on the rear and the cycling of the ABS due to too much pad bite- beyond that which the car can use effectively based on a number of things; tires, wheel diameter (if different) weight, weight shfit, wheelbase and what's on the front brakes.
Why not put .55 pads in everything then? While you could, the dust, wear and noise would be beyond that of what most owners want. There is no one size fits all brake pad regardless of what the suppliers tell you.
The Cf changes as the pad goes through temp changes as well. A race pad works poorly on the street or is too hard on the rotor, a street pad fades at race rotor temps. Personally I prefer pads which 'ramp up' in Cf as the temp rises. There are some like this from a number of suppliers. Doubt you'll find much of that in the street pad world however. Or suppliers that even know what it means. I like this as the bias shifts forward as the temps rise due to greater brake requirements. This tends to keep pace with the wieight shift for track use where less rear brake can be effective. On the other hand at lower temps it's less effective and allows the rears to better match the front.
Which pads are for you? Depends on what you are willing to give up. Mostly noise and dust levels. No doubt a good pad change will improve the response of the brake system and can provide a beter stable braking event. But all that comes with a trade off. There is also no requirement that one use the same compound front and rear so there's some opportunity for experimenting as well if you care too. The use of the car can be a huge factor. Highway, open track, auto cross, drags, daily street, show, wet, snow, cold temps, can all have an impact. The factory simply aims for a good starting point.
As you know the popular BBKs offered tend to use 'performance' pads. This may be a pad that is not as high a Cf as some of the other pads you might buy. How can this be? Because they can use the benefits of changes on piston area or rotor diameter to change the needed pad. Total stopping is total stopping. How you get there is based on the three factors; rotor, caliper, and pad. Think of it as leverage, clampiing and bite.
Street pads generally run about .38 to .40. Most "performance" pads run about .40-.47. Race pads run up to .65 or better.
What's all that mean on the car? In short, the more pad bite the more total rotor torque is generated with less required input pressure to make it happen. This can have an effect on the vehicles brake bias or braking balance as well. Most common is the hot rod pad on the rear and the cycling of the ABS due to too much pad bite- beyond that which the car can use effectively based on a number of things; tires, wheel diameter (if different) weight, weight shfit, wheelbase and what's on the front brakes.
Why not put .55 pads in everything then? While you could, the dust, wear and noise would be beyond that of what most owners want. There is no one size fits all brake pad regardless of what the suppliers tell you.
The Cf changes as the pad goes through temp changes as well. A race pad works poorly on the street or is too hard on the rotor, a street pad fades at race rotor temps. Personally I prefer pads which 'ramp up' in Cf as the temp rises. There are some like this from a number of suppliers. Doubt you'll find much of that in the street pad world however. Or suppliers that even know what it means. I like this as the bias shifts forward as the temps rise due to greater brake requirements. This tends to keep pace with the wieight shift for track use where less rear brake can be effective. On the other hand at lower temps it's less effective and allows the rears to better match the front.
Which pads are for you? Depends on what you are willing to give up. Mostly noise and dust levels. No doubt a good pad change will improve the response of the brake system and can provide a beter stable braking event. But all that comes with a trade off. There is also no requirement that one use the same compound front and rear so there's some opportunity for experimenting as well if you care too. The use of the car can be a huge factor. Highway, open track, auto cross, drags, daily street, show, wet, snow, cold temps, can all have an impact. The factory simply aims for a good starting point.
As you know the popular BBKs offered tend to use 'performance' pads. This may be a pad that is not as high a Cf as some of the other pads you might buy. How can this be? Because they can use the benefits of changes on piston area or rotor diameter to change the needed pad. Total stopping is total stopping. How you get there is based on the three factors; rotor, caliper, and pad. Think of it as leverage, clampiing and bite.
I have an 06 srt8 with 1600 miles. The dealer now has new pads he wants to install but not new rotors. I am talking valleys in my rotors. They want to machine the valleys out on a brand new car. They were scored at about 300 miles on. I have read other posts where rotors were replaced but have never seen a TSB number. Any help?
did mine
dealers are stupid!
mine replaced all rotors and pads back in October at around 1500 miles. same problems still exist.
insist on new rotors. you'll get them. demand to see the GM. all the TSB's are on this site in order. Bring the applicable one in with you.
Last, please remember that nothing is wrong with your brakes. They simply selected a pad way too aggressive for street use. These cars out-stop almost anything on wheels!
Steve
06 CSRT8
all stock all original
everything but DVD
waiting for software
dealers are stupid!
mine replaced all rotors and pads back in October at around 1500 miles. same problems still exist.
insist on new rotors. you'll get them. demand to see the GM. all the TSB's are on this site in order. Bring the applicable one in with you.
Last, please remember that nothing is wrong with your brakes. They simply selected a pad way too aggressive for street use. These cars out-stop almost anything on wheels!
Steve
06 CSRT8
all stock all original
everything but DVD
waiting for software
Joined
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1,265 Posts
Probably. But before you waste your time at the dealership, try bedding in your brakes by following these instructions: http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm. If it works, then you're good to go. If not, then make an appointment at the dealer. They will probably machine or replace your front rotors. I would push for replacement if they give you the option.Logan214 said:
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59 Posts
I am having the same problem with Chrysler, your lucky they want to change the Pads with me they don't want to do anything.srt eight said:
The TSB is 05-005-05
When the Dealer orders the parts they will receive a letter that tells them not to replace the rotors but to turn them instead.
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