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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
We are thinking about getting a Superchips programmer and I wanted some feed back on it from those of you that have one - negative and positive. Gas mileage improvement especially. The car is under warranty - so we need something that we can easily put the pcm back to stock when it goes to the dealer. I have a Hypertech in my truck - so I know the basics. Info please??
 

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Get a Predator from DiabloSport. Its much, much better then the SuperChips FlashPaq.
 

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I had before 2005 300C, and from my practices I can tell you go with it…

Much safer and became a mature product comparing to DS…:fing02:
 

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IMO, if your are looking for performance gains don't waste your money on Superchips. I have never noticed any difference with Superchips, except for a slightly quicker shift at hard/full throttle. If there are actual measurable (dyno, 0-60) performance gains you will not be able to notice them as they are very small. In fact, this dyno comparison shows Superchips was slower than Stock.
http://www.300cforums.com/forums/pe...th-not-3.html?highlight=superchips#post481286

The best thing about Superchips is the data logging, ability to read/clear trouble codes, set the tire diameter, and increase the speed limiter.
If you want these extra features, than a Superchips for around $100 or less might be worth it.

There are a lot of raves for the Predator (just like there was when Superchips first came out). I think the Predator data logging capture is a little more cumbersome than Superchips, as you need a laptop in your car.
I don't think I have yet seen a convincing Predator dyno on a stock 5.7L that shows an improvement in performance. There might be one, but I can't recall seeing it. I would get a Predator if there was a proven 0-60 gain of 0.2 to 0.3 tenths of a second on a stock 5.7.
 

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Racinfan83...To consolidate and augment what other have said, the Flashpaq does help the 300C performance, which is a hard thing to quantify, in particular what you would consider performance. The Flashpaq will give you firmer shifts, reduced torque management, higher shift points, the ability to lean your fuel tables, and the ability to burn higher octane gas which in turn allows more timing and less fuel. The leaning of the fuel tables does help gas mileage. The Flashpaq also allows you to change tire sizes and and raise the speed limiter if you are inclined to change from a strictly stock car.

The Flashpaq has been on the market for a couple of years. It has also been replaced by a more advanced tuner in the Predator by many Flashpaq owners. Because of this you can probably find a used Flashpaq for very little cost. I found the Flashpaq very easy to use and very reliable.

In summary, if you plan many performance modifications in the future you might want to skip the Flashpaq and go straight to the Predator. If you plan to stay primarily stock and can pick up a Flashpaq for $50-$100 then it may make more sense to go with the Flashpaq.
 

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I would get a Predator if there was a proven 0-60 gain of 0.2 to 0.3 tenths of a second on a stock 5.7.
I think that your right in saving the 350 odd dollars if you plan to stay stock. Both Diablo and Superchips have dyno runs that show 10-20 hp gains. Without knowing the exact circumstances of the testing its hard to take those gains to the bank or if one actually outperforms the other. I believe both remove a measure of safety built into the stock tune by advancing timing and cutting fuel to achieve their horsepower gains.

For my heavily modified and unique engine setup the Predator is the hands down winner and has given me over a 1.5" 1/4 mile gain from my tune with the Flashpaq . When I started tinkering with my tune in November I was running an abysmal 1/4 in the low 14s(no DA correction) with my current mods. My last run with a CMR tune I was running mid 12s (no DA correction). The ability to tweak the timing and fuel maps along with higher shift points and further reduction to torque management the Predator and CMR tune is a godsend for the heavily modified engines.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
We are planning on staying stock. This is my wife's daily driver, she likes going fast - but we won't be racing it or anything like that. If any of you guys have a good used Superchips you'd like to get rid of - pm me.

Any more info also appreciated! :grouphug:
 

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i have a superchips for sale. i like it very much. pm me if you're interested.
 

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The Flashpaq will give you firmer shifts, reduced torque management, higher shift points, the ability to lean your fuel tables, and the ability to burn higher octane gas which in turn allows more timing and less fuel. The leaning of the fuel tables does help gas mileage. .
I am no expert in timing advance and fuel adjustments, but I have done a few runs of data logging and it appears Superchips is only adding 0.50 degrees of timing, from 23.0 to 23.5. The first pic shows a WOT stock run.
The second pic shows a WOT with Superchips 91 octane, stock shift points and stock torque management.
2300 is 23.0 advance on the stock run. 2350 is 23.5 on the SC run.

I don't know how much fuel adjustments can be made with a 0.5 timing adjustment, I am guessing not a lot. Maybe someone with more knowledge of timing/fuel adjustments can explain if an additional 0.5 of timing advance would add a measurable improvement in performance.
 

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After my post above, I happened to find another WOT where SC maximum advance was 24.0. This run was 91 octane, raised shift points, and reduced torque management. But the graph/numbers look screwed up because the advance dropped on the first shift from 24.0 to 5.0 at the peak RPM of 5,952. This looks wrong because the advance should drop after the first shift. I think this a SC data logging bug/error.

Another bug with Superchips is it does not log Knock Retard. Knock Retard is on the tuner menu, but it does not log anything. During this run I was trying to determine with the Knock Sensors if timing was being retarded. The circle on the left side of the graph is where it appears advance is being retarded when the Knock Sensor 1 and 2 were peaking.
 

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I am no expert in timing advance and fuel adjustments, but I have done a few runs of data logging and it appears Superchips is only adding 0.50 degrees of timing, from 23.0 to 23.5. The first pic shows a WOT stock run.
The second pic shows a WOT with Superchips 91 octane, stock shift points and stock torque management.
2300 is 23.0 advance on the stock run. 2350 is 23.5 on the SC run.

I don't know how much fuel adjustments can be made with a 0.5 timing adjustment, I am guessing not a lot. Maybe someone with more knowledge of timing/fuel adjustments can explain if an additional 0.5 of timing advance would add a measurable improvement in performance.
I know that you noticed my deliberately stated distinction between what the pro-Superchips dyno results show and what the tuner actually did.;)

Even still, I am surprised at the minimal adjustment that your logs show. I would have guessed more like 2 degrees. There is the possibility that the tuner did in fact adjust the spark forward 2 of more degrees but because of the heat or gas used that day the KR pulled the timing back. The bulk of their adjustment must have been in the fuel table.

The timing advance would have actually limited the ability to cut fuel but as your question implied .5 degrees of timing is nothing. I did not log any runs with my wide band AFR gauge with the Flashpaq but our stock tune runs very rich under WOT so I can only guess that this is what would be adjusted to get power.
 

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After my post above, I happened to find another WOT where SC maximum advance was 24.0. This run was 91 octane, raised shift points, and reduced torque management. But the graph/numbers look screwed up because the advance dropped on the first shift from 24.0 to 5.0 at the peak RPM of 5,952. This looks wrong because the advance should drop after the first shift. I think this a SC data logging bug/error.

Another bug with Superchips is it does not log Knock Retard. Knock Retard is on the tuner menu, but it does not log anything. During this run I was trying to determine with the Knock Sensors if timing was being retarded. The circle on the left side of the graph is where it appears advance is being retarded when the Knock Sensor 1 and 2 were peaking.
The graph is somewhat puzzling as my experience is you would normally get you worst KR at peak torque not peak rpm. Your point from your prior post is well taken though. The horsepower gain advertised is not necessarily what you will actually get.
 

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Avatar rollback requested...

Pimp...I was starting to look forward to your latest avatar...until this last one that is.:)
 

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The graph is somewhat puzzling as my experience is you would normally get you worst KR at peak torque not peak rpm..
I am not sure how torque and RPM correlate, but from my experience Knocking occurs at the highest RPMS when I hear the knocking the most. I assume KR kicks in as knocking gets worse.

When I bought my first flashpaq I was getting very loud/audible knocking at peak RPMs', just before the shift. As RPM's increased knocking got louder. As soon as the car shifted the knocking stopped.

Superchips later modified the tuner/tune to reduce the detonation.
 

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I am not sure how torque and RPM correlate, but from my experience Knocking occurs at the highest RPMS when I hear the knocking the most. I assume KR kicks in as knocking gets worse.

When I bought my first flashpaq I was getting very loud/audible knocking at peak RPMs', just before the shift. As RPM's increased knocking got louder. As soon as the car shifted the knocking stopped.

Superchips later modified the tuner/tune to reduce the detonation.
As a general rule of thumb the worst knock will come with the most combustion chamber pressure when all else is equal. I follows that when you have the most combustion chamber pressure you have the most torque. This is assuming that the engine is relatively well tuned. In a modified motor with a new cam and no new tune the maximum combustion chamber pressure could happen just about anytime. An overly aggressive tune with too much timing on the top end could also give you knock at high rpms and not high torque. It sounds like your original Flashpaq may have put too much timing at the top end or cut back the injector pulse too much and the engine started running too lean at that rpm. The stock PCM has a fairly large knock window so Superchips must have missed by quite a bit for you to be able to hear it. I am also surprised that you have any piston tops left if you were able to hear the engine knocking.
 

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As a general rule of thumb the worst knock will come with the most combustion chamber pressure when all else is equal. I follows that when you have the most combustion chamber pressure you have the most torque. This is assuming that the engine is relatively well tuned. In a modified motor with a new cam and no new tune the maximum combustion chamber pressure could happen just about anytime. An overly aggressive tune with too much timing on the top end could also give you knock at high rpms and not high torque. It sounds like your original Flashpaq may have put too much timing at the top end or cut back the injector pulse too much and the engine started running too lean at that rpm. The stock PCM has a fairly large knock window so Superchips must have missed by quite a bit for you to be able to hear it. I am also surprised that you have any piston tops left if you were able to hear the engine knocking.
I returned the tuner for a refund within the first 30 days. It only took me two to three runs to know the tuner was not usable.
A few months later Superchips issued an updated tune to fix the detonation.
I then bought another tuner and havn't heard any detonation.

Superchips is located in Florida with a different fuel formulation than California. SC owners in California, and some other states, where really having problems with detonation.
 
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