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TSB#: 21-011-05

Date: April 23, 2005

Models: 300/Magnum/Charger/Grand Cherokee (WK w/3.7L, LX w/ 5.7L, or LX AWD w/3.5L) equipped with a NAG1 (W5A580) transmission (sales code DGJ).

Model year: 2005

SUBJECT: NAG1 (W5A580) Transmission - Shudder When Torque Converter Clutch Engages

OVERVIEW: This bulletin involves thoroughly flushing the NAG1 (W5A580) transmission of any water contamination, replacing the transmission filter, and applying RTV sealant around the base of the transmission fill tube to prevent water intrusion past the fill tube seal.

SYMPTOM/CONDITION: The customer may experience a transmission shudder when shifts occur. The shudder is most noticeable with partial application of the torque converter clutch in 3rd and 4th gear.

DIAGNOSIS: If the customer experiences the condition perform the Repair Procedure.

NOTE: This condition may occur when only a small 0.5% concentration of water is present in the automatic transmission fluid. It will be very important to ensure that the transmission and torque converter is thoroughly flushed of any water and other possible contaminants.

Parts required:

13 P/N 05013457AA Fluid, Automatic Transmission, MS-9602 ATF+4, Qt.
1 P/N 05010884AA ATF - RTV
1 P/N 52108325AA Filter, Transmission Oil

Special tools:

9336 Special Tool - Transmission Oil Dipstick - Used for LX
CH9401 StarSCAN™ Tool
CH9404 StarSCAN™ Vehicle Cable

REPAIR PROCEDURE:

This repair procedure involves a triple flush of the transmission. Follow the Repair Procedure carefully to ensure that all residual contaminated fluid has been removed from the transmission, especially the torque converter.

1. Raise the vehicle on an appropriate hoist.

2. Inspect that the fill tube seal is properly installed to the transmission housing.

NOTE: The seal between the fill tube and transmission housing is correctly installed when the top surface of the seal is flush with the outer surface of the transmission housing. If the seal is not correctly installed (extends up above the transmission housing surface) then its position must be corrected prior to proceeding further.

3. Loosen (but do not remove) the lower fill tube attaching bolt located at the base of the fill tube (Fig. 1).

4. Loosen the upper fill tube attaching bolt.

5. Verify that the transmission fill tube is centered (no side loading) in the transmission housing opening and seal.

6. Tighten the upper attaching bolt to 40.7 Nm (30 ft. lbs.). The upper bolt MUST be tighten before the lower bolt is tightened.

7. Tighten the lower fill tube attaching bolt to 11.9 Nm (105 in. lbs.).

8. Thoroughly clean the base of the fill tube and the area of the transmission where the fill tube mates to the transmission housing.

9. Apply ATF-RTV sealer, p/n 05010884AA, to the area where the fill tube mates to the transmission housing.

NOTE: Verify that the RTV sealer is installed completely around the base of the fill tube and completely seals off the transmission housing fill tube seal from possible water intrusion past the seal.

10. Remove the transmission oil pan. Drain the transmission fluid.

11. Thoroughly clean the transmission oil pan.

12. Install the transmission oil pan. The pan gasket is reusable.

13. Lower the vehicle leaving the rear wheels off the ground.

14. Fill the transmission with four (4) quarts of ATF+4 transmission oil.

15. Apply the service brake and start the vehicle engine.

16. Shift the transmission into drive, release the service brake, and lightly accelerate the engine speed to allow the transmission to upshift through all forward gears.

17. Apply the service brake and stop the wheels from turning.

18. Shift the transmission into reverse and release the service brake. Let the wheels turn for approximately 5 seconds.

19. Apply the service brake and stop the wheels from turning.

20. Repeat steps 16 - 19 two more times.

NOTE: At times, the transmission may go into “limp-in” mode due a to transmission generated DTC. The DTC must be erased/cleared before proceeding further. The transmission fluid may not be properly circulated in the transmission if the transmission remains in “limp-in” mode.

21. Stop the engine and place the transmission in the PARK “P” position.

22. Raise the vehicle.

23. Remove the transmission oil pan. Drain the transmission fluid.

24. Thoroughly clean the transmission oil pan.

25. Install the transmission oil pan. The pan gasket is reusable.

26. Lower the vehicle leaving the rear wheels off the ground.

27. Fill the transmission with four (4) quarts of ATF+4 transmission oil.

28. Apply the service brake and start the vehicle engine.

29. Shift the transmission into drive, release the service brake, and lightly accelerate the engine speed to allow the transmission to upshift through all forward gears.

30. Apply the service brake and stop the wheels from turning.

31. Shift the transmission into reverse and release the service brake. Let the wheels turn for approximately 5 seconds.

32. Apply the service brake and stop the wheels from turning.

33. Repeat steps 29 - 32 two more times.

NOTE: At times, the transmission may go into “limp-in” mode due a to transmission generated DTC. The DTC must be erased/cleared before proceeding further. The transmission fluid may not be properly circulated in the transmission if the transmission remains in “limp-in” mode.

34. Stop the engine and place the transmission in the PARK “P” position.

35. Raise the vehicle.

36. Remove the transmission oil pan and filter. Drain the transmission fluid.

37. Thoroughly clean the transmission oil pan and pan mating surfaces.

38. Install a new transmission oil filter, p/n 52108325AA.

39. Install the transmission oil pan (gasket is reusable). Torque the pan fasteners to 8 Nm (71 in. lbs.).

WARNING:Risk of accident from vehicle starting off by itself when engine running. Risk of injury from contusions and burns if you insert your hands into the engine when it is started or when it is running. Secure vehicle to prevent it from moving off by itself. Wear properly fastened and close-fitting work clothes. Do not touch hot or rotating parts.

CAUTION: Transmission oil temperature readings are taken using the StarSCAN™ tool. The transmission oil temperature can be read ONLY when the gear selector and transmission are in either the Reverse “R” or in one of the Drive “D” / forward gear positions. Always set the vehicle park brake AND apply the vehicle service brake when taking transmission oil temperature readings. Take a transmission oil temperature reading and return the transmission to the Park “P” position. When the vehicle is in either Park “P” or Neutral “N” the StarSCAN™ displays the ENGINE coolant temperature (not the transmission oil temperature).

NOTE: The WK is equipped with its own dipstick. Read the oil level on the transmission dipstick when the transmission oil temperature is either 70° F (21° C) or 180° F (82° C).

40. Monitor the transmission oil temperature:

a. Set the vehicle parking brake.
b. Connect the StarSCAN™ to the vehicle diagnostic link connector.
c. Apply the vehicle service brake. Start the engine and let it run at idle speed with the transmission selector in the Park "P" position.
d. With the service brake applied, shift through the transmission modes several times with the vehicle stationary and the engine idling.
e. Return the transmission selector to the Park “P” position.
f. With the engine running, allow the transmission to warm up.
g. Apply the vehicle service brake, shift the transmission into Reverse “R” or Drive “D” position, and monitor the transmission oil temperature using the StarSCAN™. Shift the transmission back into the Park “P” position.
h. Continue to monitor the transmission oil temperature until the transmission oil temperature is within the temperature range of the Transmission Fluid Graph (Fig. 2). Place the transmission selector in the Park “P” position.

NOTE: Always check the oil level while the engine is running and the transmission selector is in the Park “P” position.

NOTE: For the LX (300/Magnum/Charger), the handle end of special tool 9336
transmission oil dipstick may protrude from the fill tube when installed.

41. If vehicle is an LX, remove the dipstick tube cap. Push the transmission oil dipstick (Special Tool 9336) into the transmission fill tube until the dipstick tip contacts the oil pan. Pull out the dipstick and read the transmission oil level. Repeat if necessary.

a. Check transmission oil temperature using the StarSCAN™.
b. The transmission Oil Dipstick 9336 has indicator marks every 10mm. Determine the height of the oil level on the dipstick. Using the height, the transmission temperature, and the Transmission Fluid Graph (Fig. 2), determine if the transmission oil level is correct.
c. Add or remove oil as necessary and recheck the oil level.
d. Once the oil level is correct, install the dipstick tube cap.

42. If the vehicle is a WK (Grand Cherokee), pull out the dipstick and read the transmission oil level.

a. Check transmission oil temperature using the StarSCAN™. The WK dipstick is calibrated to have the transmission oil level read when the oil temperature is either at 70° F (21° C) or 180° F (82° C).
b. Add or remove oil as necessary and recheck the oil level.
c. Once the oil level is correct, install the dipstick.

43. Drive the vehicle until the transmission fluid is at normal operating temperature to confirm that the shift shudder has been eliminated.

44. With the vehicle on a level surface, the parking brake applied, the engine running at curb idle speed, and the gear selector in the PARK “P” position, check the transmission fluid level.
 

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thanks RS

i think they should make this a sticky thread and all tsb's should be posted in one place so all someone would have to do is write tsb# down and go to the dealer with it..kinda hard resreching all the tsb's in diff. places?...herbs
 

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Yes!!

4herb2tas0tik said:
i think they should make this a sticky thread and all tsb's should be posted in one place so all someone would have to do is write tsb# down and go to the dealer with it..kinda hard resreching all the tsb's in diff. places?...herbs
OUTSTANDING IDEA....GOLD star for you.. :)
 

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RS, many thanks. I just spent an hour with my service manager over this issue.

Water in the tranny is a serious problem. He will see this post first thing Mon am.

Again, thanks very much. This forum is awesome.
 

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I don't believe that this TSB refers to the 55 mph vibration, am I correct?

There have been so many different stories, relating to trannys, exhaust, etc.

If this in fact is related to the 55 vibration, I want to let my dealer know. I am taking it ain for my sunroof rattle on Wednesday. Might as well kill two birds with one stone.
 

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JeepGrady, I was thinking the same thing. I really do believe two problems exist. I still think the vibration issue is due to the exhaust. When I mean vibration, I think about watching the rear window vibrate between 55-58. The shudder from what I understand is more violent and completely noticable. I think that has to do with water in the tranny. Unfortunately, I think some people have both while others only have one of the two. Just my .02. I think the fact that Moddog solely had his exhaust replaced and his vibration is gone is good evidence of this.
 

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For arguments sake: The TSB states that there is a shudder when the torque converter engages. Then it says that it is most noticable with partial application of the torque converter clutch in 3rd or 4th gear. What does partial application mean? Does the torque converter engage at 55-57 mph?

On the other hand, Lik2race had the tranny replaced when water was found inside. Since then it appears there is no more vibration. Is that coincidental?

I certainly don't like the idea of water in the tranny. I wonder if the dealer can tell without performing the tsb. My car is garaged and literally spent most of the Winter indoors, so even if there is water in it, it should be minute. For that matter, I can only assume that the only way that water could get in through the dipstick is if you went sailing through some pretty deep water, right?
 

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jeepgrady said:
.....I can only assume that the only way that water could get in through the dipstick is if you went sailing through some pretty deep water, right?
There was a post recently stating that a Svc. Mgr. blamed condensation from the A/C condenser seeping through the fill tube...
 

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Water in Tranny

jeepgrady said:
For arguments sake: The TSB states that there is a shudder when the torque converter engages. Then it says that it is most noticable with partial application of the torque converter clutch in 3rd or 4th gear. What does partial application mean? Does the torque converter engage at 55-57 mph?

On the other hand, Lik2race had the tranny replaced when water was found inside. Since then it appears there is no more vibration. Is that coincidental?

I certainly don't like the idea of water in the tranny. I wonder if the dealer can tell without performing the tsb. My car is garaged and literally spent most of the Winter indoors, so even if there is water in it, it should be minute. For that matter, I can only assume that the only way that water could get in through the dipstick is if you went sailing through some pretty deep water, right?
I don't recall EVER going through water deep enough to come in around the bottom of the dipstick ( where O-ring is leaking );said it "could have come from lots of rain,car washing,etc."
Irregardless,I had the vibration at 38-40 mph,and at 55-58..I also had the "Shudder" they are talking about. They tried all the flushing,etc.,but too much damage had been done,and tranny had to be replaced. That was at 1780 miles,I now have 3002..NOT one problem with the tranny..No Vibration..No Shudder..all is well
 

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The water appears to come as condensation from the air conditioning and finds its way down to tranny fill tube, which may not be sealing properly.

On Friday, my service manager said that a tiny amount of water in transmission fluid can cause problems.

Let's hope we are finally getting to the bottom of this issue.
 

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Ah yes, now I remember reading that. Well, if the a/c condensate tube dripping into the dipstick area is the cause, then I would think that one way or the other, it would be advantageous for us with any vibration to bring the tsb to the dealers attention.

They mention that all it takes is .5% concentration of water to cause a problem. That is an extremely small ratio of water to tranny fluid.
 

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This entire idea of water leaking through the seal at the fill tube/housing joint bothers me.

If this is now a "known" failure point on these trannys,due to the design decision to mount the AC condensor over the fill tube, then why only a TSB for this issue? I say that a full Customer Satisfication Notice or even a recall is warranted here.

Why should we be subjected to be forced into "waiting" for this to happen (water entering the tranny) and "then" be subjected to the worry as to how much our tranny's overall life was shortened because of the contamination. Sure, this procedure may remove the existing contamination and get it back to working - in the short term. But isn't anybody worried about their tranny failing just "after" the powertrain warranty expires because of the abuse it was subjected to early in it's life due to water contamination?

I say they should be inspecting and providing a sure-fire fix to ALL vehicles with this design - NOW - "before" water ever is permitted to enter the transmission in the first place.

JFF:D
 

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I agree with you that a customer satisfaction recall should be issued. I think that now this tsb is out, if all of us who have any symptoms relating to a vibration hit them and they then realize how widespread the problem is, they might issue a recall. You are right about any long term consequences to this problem.

I don't know if anyone realized this but the tsb carries over to the Grand Cherokee with the 3.7 engine, so this problem is more widspread than just the LX's. It appears that the old adage "pay me now or pay me later" would apply to this issue. It would proably be cheaper for DC to notify everyone now as opposed to waiting for serious internal tranny problems to pop up, that would warrant a new tranny down the road. By down the road, I mean prior to 7/70. Boy, I'm glad we '05 owners have that 7/70.

One more thing, if the issue is discovered to be so widspread that a satisfaction recall is issued, it is possible that with enough pressure, DC will extend the warranty even further than 7/70 for the tranny. They had a major problem with their a/c units in the mid 90's on the cab forward models and extended that a/c warranty to 100,000 miles as a result.
 

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jeepgrady said:
I don't know if anyone realized this but the tsb carries over to the Grand Cherokee with the 3.7 engine
Yeah I realize that. Why? Because after I bought my 300C in January, we then bought an 05 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 3.7 in March. :D I noticed that also at the beginning of the TSB.

Like I said, having two NEW vehicles with motors/transmissions that are mentioned in this TSB worries me....a lot.:(

Knock on wood, we don't have the "shudder/vibration" issue....yet. *gulp*

JFF:D
 

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JustForFun said:
Yeah I realize that. Why? Because after I bought my 300C in January, we then bought an 05 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 3.7 in March. :D I noticed that also at the beginning of the TSB.

Like I said, having two NEW vehicles with motors/transmissions that are mentioned in this TSB worries me....a lot.:(

Knock on wood, we don't have the "shudder/vibration" issue....yet. *gulp*

JFF:D
You may recall, when the conversation was going toward the MDS, I mentioned that I had no problem with the vibration. Now I know why, my Grand with the Hemi has a different tranny. I never saw on any Jeep owners complain about the problem as yet.

By the way, two great websites for your Jeep. www.jeepsunlimited.com. Go to the wk forum. And all you ever wanted to know about your Grand, www.wkjeeps.com. It is run by a DC guy. You can see this tsb in dealer format as well as all other tsbs for the Jeep. The most comrehensive listing of free tsb's there is.

Good luck.
 

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jeepgrady said:
You may recall, when the conversation was going toward the MDS, I mentioned that I had no problem with the vibration. Now I know why, my Grand with the Hemi has a different tranny. I never saw on any Jeep owners complain about the problem as yet.

By the way, two great websites for your Jeep. www.jeepsunlimited.com. Go to the wk forum. And all you ever wanted to know about your Grand, www.wkjeeps.com. It is run by a DC guy. You can see this tsb in dealer format as well as all other tsbs for the Jeep. The most comrehensive listing of free tsb's there is.

Good luck.
jeepgrady,

Thanks a bunch for the links. Got them bookmarked! I guess if I ever have any Jeep questions, i can come to you. This is our first Jeep.:)

JFF:D
 

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JustForFun said:
This entire idea of water leaking through the seal at the fill tube/housing joint bothers me.

If this is now a "known" failure point on these trannys,due to the design decision to mount the AC condensor over the fill tube, then why only a TSB for this issue? I say that a full Customer Satisfication Notice or even a recall is warranted here.

Why should we be subjected to be forced into "waiting" for this to happen (water entering the tranny) and "then" be subjected to the worry as to how much our tranny's overall life was shortened because of the contamination. Sure, this procedure may remove the existing contamination and get it back to working - in the short term. But isn't anybody worried about their tranny failing just "after" the powertrain warranty expires because of the abuse it was subjected to early in it's life due to water contamination?

I say they should be inspecting and providing a sure-fire fix to ALL vehicles with this design - NOW - "before" water ever is permitted to enter the transmission in the first place.

JFF:D
I'm with you... this is cause for concern and doesn't seem right! This board is a relatively small community and a unique one in that we are maybe more aware and in tune with our cars, both as enthusiasts and due to the wealth of knowledge shared here. There are an awful lot of people out there driving their cars that wouldn't even recognize a vibration or shudder if they did have it.
DCX may just be banking on that.
 

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I think JG is inferring that this tsb may not apply to the 55-58 vibration, my tranny shifts perfectly with no shudder. If you recall, NR (I think) or rogue solved his vibration at 55 by driving in 4th and only going to 5 when past 55mph. This tsb speaks of a shudder in 3-4 and mentions nothing about 5th, moreover my vib is not in the shift, I am well in 5th gear. Like2race had water in the tranny with far more symptoms than a 55 vibe. Mine now has a slight vibe at 35 and I may well have water, I printed the tsb and exhaust posts to give to the dealer when I drop it off in 2 days.
 
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