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2009 Dodge Viper ACR Sets Nurburgring Lap Record - Auto News - Motor Trend
Looks like the Viper is "King of the Ring", posting a better time than the mighty ZR1 and GTR.
Now, what was all that talk about the ZR1 being unbeatable?
Wonder who it will be next month?

I'm still talking! The ZR1 with a professional driver will beat the ACR. Really.

Not knocking the Viper, as it is bad ass all the way. A much "purer" car than the ZR1. But definitely up to the driver, the ZR1 time was posted by one of the design team guys.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm still talking! The ZR1 with a professional driver will beat the ACR. Really.

Not knocking the Viper, as it is bad ass all the way. A much "purer" car than the ZR1. But definitely up to the driver, the ZR1 time was posted by one of the design team guys.

I would not be so sure about that. If you read the entire article, you'll see Dodge rented the track for only 1/2 day. They said they easily could have put the car down into the teens with some more time to adjust the suspension and/or tweak it. Not to say if they changed gears and actually had done development work at the track like the Vette crew did with the ZR1.
Seems to me the Viper stands up pretty well to a ZR1 at the track, and for less coin. When is the last time you could say that in one sentence?
 

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I'm still talking! The ZR1 with a professional driver will beat the ACR. Really.

Not knocking the Viper, as it is bad ass all the way. A much "purer" car than the ZR1. But definitely up to the driver, the ZR1 time was posted by one of the design team guys.

arent all the tests on the ring done with a "professional" driver?
 

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arent all the tests on the ring done with a "professional" driver?
Exactly, its like everyone thinks the Vette driver is some guy who prior to driving the ZR1, his only driving experience was his daily commute to work in his Tahoe.
 

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That is sweet!!! It has a different style than the vette and that's what I like about it most. Thanks Chase.
 

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agreed

agreed 100% on the Viper being DISTINCTLY different. I personally love it for its unique old school feel, and its lack of modern intrusions like Stability Control and such. It's very "elemental", and therein lies its charm.

But (and it's a big one!) IMO, the Viper was driven much more professionally tha the Vette was, and to ignore the driver in this league is too much for me.

The Vette guy was sloppy as hell, slewing all over the track. Hell, my long retired Indy Car team leader buddy could beat that time, and he made his hay as a manager, not a driver. Watch the vid and then tell me that was a representative time. My circle of "enthusiasts" all agree the Vette could knock a lot off its time with a cleaner, smoother hand at the wheel!

Bottom line is Kudos to Dodge for proving it at the track!

But the ZR1 fans want a rematch.
 

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But (and it's a big one!) IMO, the Viper was driven much more professionally tha the Vette was, and to ignore the driver in this league is too much for me.
True story. I used to race in the Porsche Club and at one event, I got my ass handed to me a 1975 914 (6 cyl) that was completely stock (around 110 hp on a 2.0 L engine). I run almost 400 hp, and came in alot lower than he did in the field. Why? Because I was tossing my car around the corners like a teenager, believing that raw power was enough. He, on the other hand, took all his lines right and stayed steady on the throttle. In other words, I would yo-yo between min and max speeds, but he kept his completely steady throughout the race. The result was an educational one.

So I agree with stevesrt8 completely.....never compare race results without taking into consideration the driver. That's why racing is so unpredictable and fun!
 

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Both the Vette and the Viper are drivers cars and very fast. I personally cant wait to see what times the GTR V Spec puts down next year. I think there will be a new king.
 

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That ACR is pretty bad ass! I just did a 3.55 gear and belanger headers on a 08 ACR this week and made an already badass car even badder!
 

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Both the Vette and the Viper are drivers cars and very fast. I personally cant wait to see what times the GTR V Spec puts down next year. I think there will be a new king.
After watching the R35 turn a 119 second lap around the TG track driven by the Stig, which puts it firmly at the top of the power board, I have NO doubts that the R35 will set the time at the Ring that many others will try to beat. I'm not so sure the ZR1 will even be able to dethrone it.
 

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viper

I find it amusing that the Vette guys as well as others are so negative about the Viper, how it is more of a pure race car, etc. Yet the Z-06, designed as the Viper killer with a dry sump no less is somehow not more of a "race car".

It seems that GM started this Nuremberg thing with all the talk about how their performance cars were "tuned" there.

So now the Viper shows up, blows them all away by at least 4 seconds with a driver who missed at least 2 shifts, was on the rev limiter countless times and still beat the Vette(s) and Nissan by a significant margin.

Not to say on a given day with a different driver, different tires, either the Nissan or either Vette won't beat the Viper's time. I just think it is pretty neat that Dodge took up the challenge and pulled it off.

I would not be so sure about that. If you read the entire article, you'll see Dodge rented the track for only 1/2 day. They said they easily could have put the car down into the teens with some more time to adjust the suspension and/or tweak it. Not to say if they changed gears and actually had done development work at the track like the Vette crew did with the ZR1.
Seems to me the Viper stands up pretty well to a ZR1 at the track, and for less coin. When is the last time you could say that in one sentence?
 

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Put the same driver in each of the cars on the same day, no "tweaking" from any of the manufacturers.. Put the ZR1 against the ACR against the GT-R.

I know what cars would be in 1st and 2nd.. The Viper is a neat car, talk to anyone that owns one or any pro that's driven one and they will tell you, the Vette (Be it the Z06 or I'm sure the ZR1) is a far more balanced sports car.
 

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The viper will sell to certain kinds of people, I'm almost certain that a GTR buyer would never in a million years consider such a car.

The vette is the happy medium.

Probably because the Vette buyer wants keyless go..

The GTR buyer's hands are too small and delicate to handle the shifter in the viper.

And the Viper buyer just got a new double wide with the money he saved.

(lol j/k - most viper buyers are probably smarter and richer than the average GTR buyer XD)

The Viper is the same concept as a V8 in a Miata. Just a V10..
 

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not bad

The viper will sell to certain kinds of people, I'm almost certain that a GTR buyer would never in a million years consider such a car. The vette is the happy medium. Probably because the Vette buyer wants keyless go.. The GTR buyer's hands are too small and delicate to handle the shifter in the viper. And the Viper buyer just got a new double wide with the money he saved.

(lol j/k - most viper buyers are probably smarter and richer than the average GTR buyer XD)

The Viper is the same concept as a V8 in a Miata. Just a V10..

Actually, not too bad for a truck engined monster. But the Viper demo is actually way above the Vette. Typical Vette (pre-ZR1) buyer is waaaayyyy lower, my dealer sold a really nice 08 6 speed auto to my friend, runs 12.5 with just a tune and a cat back. He traps 114-116! All for just UNDER 40k new!

Does anyone else know a Viper reminds me of a Cad-Allard?
 

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Actually, not too bad for a truck engined monster. But the Viper demo is actually way above the Vette. Typical Vette (pre-ZR1) buyer is waaaayyyy lower, my dealer sold a really nice 08 6 speed auto to my friend, runs 12.5 with just a tune and a cat back. He traps 114-116! All for just UNDER 40k new!

Does anyone else know a Viper reminds me of a Cad-Allard?
The demographic for Corvette buyers is 60-150K a year, male, white colar. I'm sure the demographic for the Viper is similar but the price bracket is higher.

The Viper is and has always been a beautiful car in a gutteral way, it's not a refined car by any means. It takes a professional to drive it on a race track, ham fisting the Viper will get you DEAD. The Corvette can be driven around a track by a greenhorn sipping kiante while eating a crumpet, and the same goes for the GT-R. The Viper doesn't rely on technology, it practically has none at all.

After watching the ZR1 and the GT-R lap the Ring, all I gotta say is "someone is lying" the GT-R posted a faster time, yet when you directly compare the videos the ZR1 was four seconds ahead in EVERY turn...
 

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dr. B

I find it amusing that the Vette guys as well as others are so negative about the Viper, how it is more of a pure race car, etc. Yet the Z-06, designed as the Viper killer with a dry sump no less is somehow not more of a "race car".
It seems that GM started this Nuremberg thing with all the talk about how their performance cars were "tuned" there.
So now the Viper shows up, blows them all away by at least 4 seconds with a driver who missed at least 2 shifts, was on the rev limiter countless times and still beat the Vette(s) and Nissan by a significant margin.
Not to say on a given day with a different driver, different tires, either the Nissan or either Vette won't beat the Viper's time. I just think it is pretty neat that Dodge took up the challenge and pulled it off.
Having owned both I can't believe they are even compared. My stock broker takes clients to lunch in a new Z06! It has like 4 levels of stability control, and trust me, you don't turn it all the way off! It's a way cushy cruiser that can turn nasty quick. And it STARTS going at around 100 mph!!!

"A dry sump does not a race car make". It just makes more hp. The engineering in the new ZR1 is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the viper. A 10 cylinder truck engine with fat tires!

Really, it is indeed impressive that the thing can run the way it does!
 

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I have driven both vettes and vipers. And I used to work at a shop wghere we owned 3 world record vipers....The Vette is just a better car in my opinion.


And, Vipers sounds like ****.
 

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It is very interested observing, and driving both a new Z06 and the Viper. Without a doubt, the Z06 is seriously more sophisticated that the Viper, and the Viper is a pure animal!! both vehicles are a real kick. But the Viper can be "dismantled" very easily in a auto cross. I know because we set one up, knowing there will be multiple Vipers there and we were there to show off a stock SRT8 with a complete Track II. We succeeded. How?? it was pretty easy. The biggest disadvantage the Viper has is its suspension system. It is too stiff and lacks sophistication. We made a turn on the autocross that was a decreasing right radius turn in a location that had a series of ripples in the asphalt. Our Pedderized SRT8 could handle it with no issues. But literally every Viper lost it thru this corner. Too stiff!! A Z06 would have no issue with this corner. That is one of the seriously huge differences they have. Plus with the monster motor that is in it, you can pump up massive hp. but the issue is the inability to get the tires to stick

both cars are really cool and are set up quite differently. Be proud that there are choices

mike
dms
 

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It is very interested observing, and driving both a new Z06 and the Viper. Without a doubt, the Z06 is seriously more sophisticated that the Viper, and the Viper is a pure animal!! both vehicles are a real kick. But the Viper can be "dismantled" very easily in a auto cross. I know because we set one up, knowing there will be multiple Vipers there and we were there to show off a stock SRT8 with a complete Track II. We succeeded. How?? it was pretty easy. The biggest disadvantage the Viper has is its suspension system. It is too stiff and lacks sophistication. We made a turn on the autocross that was a decreasing right radius turn in a location that had a series of ripples in the asphalt. Our Pedderized SRT8 could handle it with no issues. But literally every Viper lost it thru this corner. Too stiff!! A Z06 would have no issue with this corner. That is one of the seriously huge differences they have. Plus with the monster motor that is in it, you can pump up massive hp. but the issue is the inability to get the tires to stick

both cars are really cool and are set up quite differently. Be proud that there are choices

mike
dms

Isn't it amazing how well Vette's handle, on LEAF Springs.. They don't even have coil overs like the Vipers and yet they stay balanced on all sorts of road conditions, minimal jounce transfers from side to side.. they stay planted..


I am happy we have choices for sure... The Viper is still an absolutely gorgeous in an evil way, sports car.
 
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