What is the verdict: Bolt Pattern 5x114.3 or 5x115?
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Are you talking about with hubcentric rings or just bolting up some 5x114.3 wheels? Wheel companies and wheel vendors would be hurting from liability if people using hubcentric rings were all wrecking from using them to swap to either 115 or 114.3.
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Ok so I myself have recently been tossed into this heated debate. A couple of weeks ago I came across a set of Asanti forged wheels for one hell of a deal and instead of asking the seller the bolt pattern I just asked him what kind of vehicle did he have them on and he told me a charger. Since I knew 3's and chargers had the same bolt pattern I was like cool. Come to find out that the bolt pattern of the rims is 5X114.3. So now I'm searching the Internet and calling up the local rim shops to see what my options are. Every single rim place I have spoken with says it's the same difference but online I am getting a lot of different opinions. Only one guy I know that gave me the low down happens to be a guy I purchased some wheels from last year that works at a high end custom shop. He says that this is one of the most debated topics when it comes to wheels and bolt patterns. He said that quite a few people go with the 5x114.3 and never have any problems however depending on the vehicle and wheel, you stand the risk of placing stress on the bolts and on down the road you could experience problems. He also stated that if you do go that rout its better to center the rim using the hub versus the bolts or depending on how far the rims poke out you could go with adapters. Now I've always been told to stay away from adapters but he said the adapters that are made now are made from a better grade of material then the ones in the past. For me there is no turning back being I can't return the rims. I am going to try them out and keep you guys posted and if they are not to my liking they will be going back on Craigslist.
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All,
Using the 114.3 is probably just fine for any standard road use and will not result in damage or vibration but ONLY IF you use eccentric lugs and properly sized, quality centering rings. If you do not use the eccentric lugs then the misalignment between the studs and holes will strain both the studs and the rims and will increase the chance of failure.
This is why it will strain the rims:
90% of the clamping load from the lugs will be placed on the outer edge of the bolt holes. This will become a point load and deform the wheel if you are lucky and crack it if you are unlucky. (this would be the point where things start coming apart)
This is why it will strain the studs:
The misalignment will cause the studs to be pulled inward. This will exert a fractional shear load on the lugs. They are not meant to have any shear load applied, only tension. This will reduce their life, and if localized stresses are imparted will promote corrosion. (also where things will start coming apart)
This is why using eccentric lugs along with centering rings makes this fitment acceptable:
Modern hubs are dimensioned and machined radially from the center as datum. This means that the center ring is the most important dimension to fit. If the rim fits properly on center, then the lugs will all be equidistantly (improperly) spaced. Now when you tighten the 2-piece eccentric lugs they will offset to seat properly in the wheel while keeping the studs straight.
This is why eccentric lugs are OK when used with centering rings:
The studs are not preventing your wheels from rotating in any way. All the studs do is provide something to use to exert a clamping force. It's the friction interface between the rim and hub face that keeps everything where it needs to be. Some cars (Saab 9-3 for instance) even used eccentric lugs from the factory for some applications. Once you apply the clamping force, the wheel isn't going to move baring levels of force that tend to damage the rest of the car or wheel anyway. Therefore, using eccentric lugs is analogous to having slotted holes in a bracket. Slotted holes are fine unless all the holes are slotted. If all the holes are slotted then you have a hard time lining everything up (hence the vibration that people are getting with wheels). Without centering rings all the holes are effectively slotted when using eccentric lugs. With centering rings one is not and you are OK. Ensure the eccentric lugs have sufficient compliance to seat fully in the rim without contacting the studs or you are not actually solving the stud tension vs. shear problem and do drop the coin required to procure quality lugs. They are holding the wheels on your car, after all, and you've already made a comprise to fit the wring size wheels.
Hope this helps, but to summarize:
1.) Ideal, and factory solution is 5x115 wheels with proper hub centers OR centering rings
2.) Acceptable solution is to use 5x114.3 with hub centering rings AND eccentric lugs (and be honest with yourself by admitting this is acceptable but not ideal)
3.) DO NOT mount 5x114.3 without eccentric lugs AND hub centering rings (because you may die)
4.) DO NOT mount anything without hub centering rings (or they will vibrate)
Using the 114.3 is probably just fine for any standard road use and will not result in damage or vibration but ONLY IF you use eccentric lugs and properly sized, quality centering rings. If you do not use the eccentric lugs then the misalignment between the studs and holes will strain both the studs and the rims and will increase the chance of failure.
This is why it will strain the rims:
90% of the clamping load from the lugs will be placed on the outer edge of the bolt holes. This will become a point load and deform the wheel if you are lucky and crack it if you are unlucky. (this would be the point where things start coming apart)
This is why it will strain the studs:
The misalignment will cause the studs to be pulled inward. This will exert a fractional shear load on the lugs. They are not meant to have any shear load applied, only tension. This will reduce their life, and if localized stresses are imparted will promote corrosion. (also where things will start coming apart)
This is why using eccentric lugs along with centering rings makes this fitment acceptable:
Modern hubs are dimensioned and machined radially from the center as datum. This means that the center ring is the most important dimension to fit. If the rim fits properly on center, then the lugs will all be equidistantly (improperly) spaced. Now when you tighten the 2-piece eccentric lugs they will offset to seat properly in the wheel while keeping the studs straight.
This is why eccentric lugs are OK when used with centering rings:
The studs are not preventing your wheels from rotating in any way. All the studs do is provide something to use to exert a clamping force. It's the friction interface between the rim and hub face that keeps everything where it needs to be. Some cars (Saab 9-3 for instance) even used eccentric lugs from the factory for some applications. Once you apply the clamping force, the wheel isn't going to move baring levels of force that tend to damage the rest of the car or wheel anyway. Therefore, using eccentric lugs is analogous to having slotted holes in a bracket. Slotted holes are fine unless all the holes are slotted. If all the holes are slotted then you have a hard time lining everything up (hence the vibration that people are getting with wheels). Without centering rings all the holes are effectively slotted when using eccentric lugs. With centering rings one is not and you are OK. Ensure the eccentric lugs have sufficient compliance to seat fully in the rim without contacting the studs or you are not actually solving the stud tension vs. shear problem and do drop the coin required to procure quality lugs. They are holding the wheels on your car, after all, and you've already made a comprise to fit the wring size wheels.
Hope this helps, but to summarize:
1.) Ideal, and factory solution is 5x115 wheels with proper hub centers OR centering rings
2.) Acceptable solution is to use 5x114.3 with hub centering rings AND eccentric lugs (and be honest with yourself by admitting this is acceptable but not ideal)
3.) DO NOT mount 5x114.3 without eccentric lugs AND hub centering rings (because you may die)
4.) DO NOT mount anything without hub centering rings (or they will vibrate)
where can we buy eccentric lug nuts from?
I just bought a 07 300 base and find it nuts that this is the only car I have ever had that has no definite lug pattern or offset ! Every other car I have owned I just give year and model and boom wheels ! Not these, is it 5x115 or is it 5x114.3 I looked up offset I found several recommendations for that went to order wheels and they said I needed a whole different offset this is crazy how does anyone get a set of wheels ?
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I buy 5x115 because its the factory size offset can vary depending on wheel width and placement I just ordered 20" wheels 8.5 and 10 inch widths 20 offset in front and a 245 tire should clear and keep tire centerline factory and a 315 for the rear with a 25 offset to keep the tire in the body lines. if you order factory off set with a wider rim it will just push the rim out farther and look silly if you ask me. Lifted trucks do this I do not know why but each person can like what they like when they spend the money.
I purchased some gen 2 (19 x 7.5) +55 offset stock wheels. When I took the my car (06' 300 C) Firestone they back wheels fit but the front wheels hit the control arm when turning the wheel. I asked if wheel spacers could help and they told me they don't deal with them. Has anyone ever put gen 2 wheels on a gen 1? Or am I just SOL?
Cheers
Cheers
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DEVON206 Do you have an AWD?
The +55 offset is the stock AWD offset. RWD stock offset is 24mm (most aftermarket 9" wheels will be a +15 to +18) and SRT was 25.5mm
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Aloha All!! I need more expert help!
OK... when I bought my 2008 300C AWD ("Beauty") at the end of 2015, she already had aftermarket wheels/tires on (Foose Legend/Toyo Proxis), but I'm not sure what size (width, backspacing, offset, center) the wheels are other than the 20" diameter. I just found out that one of my wheels is slightly bent (and keeps launching balance weights)... and so am now looking to replace ALL the rims with a style that more fits me (cost also does very much matter... but I do like the 2Crave No 9 in chrome). I am currently still running the newer Firestone Wide Ovals in the same 275/40R20 size that was on Beauty when I first got her, that I really like plus with still lots of tread left, so I am figuring on a 9.5" - 10" width (9.0"-11.0" recommended for the 275/40R20's). Upon reading here... I now know that my bolt pattern is definitely 5x115 and I'm guessing that my center is 71.5mm (unless the AWD is different). Now, where I get lost is on the backspacing & offset!! I do know what the term offset means... and I know the AWD offset is much different (bigger) than the RWD offset... I just don't know what amount it should be with the wider than stock wheels for my car. I don't have any money to waste on trial & error... by buying and trying multiple sets of wheels... so any help is greatly appreciated!!
OK... when I bought my 2008 300C AWD ("Beauty") at the end of 2015, she already had aftermarket wheels/tires on (Foose Legend/Toyo Proxis), but I'm not sure what size (width, backspacing, offset, center) the wheels are other than the 20" diameter. I just found out that one of my wheels is slightly bent (and keeps launching balance weights)... and so am now looking to replace ALL the rims with a style that more fits me (cost also does very much matter... but I do like the 2Crave No 9 in chrome). I am currently still running the newer Firestone Wide Ovals in the same 275/40R20 size that was on Beauty when I first got her, that I really like plus with still lots of tread left, so I am figuring on a 9.5" - 10" width (9.0"-11.0" recommended for the 275/40R20's). Upon reading here... I now know that my bolt pattern is definitely 5x115 and I'm guessing that my center is 71.5mm (unless the AWD is different). Now, where I get lost is on the backspacing & offset!! I do know what the term offset means... and I know the AWD offset is much different (bigger) than the RWD offset... I just don't know what amount it should be with the wider than stock wheels for my car. I don't have any money to waste on trial & error... by buying and trying multiple sets of wheels... so any help is greatly appreciated!!
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Offset is the distance the mounting hub is offset center on the wheel.
AWD stock offset is +55mm
RWD stock offset is +22ish mm
SRT stock offset is +25.5mm
I would not run 11" wide wheels on the front.
A 9" wheel would be fine to run.
+40 offset on a 9" wheel will keep you inside the wheelwells
On your Foose wheels the size should be stamped on the inside of the wheel
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I fiscally measured the bolts pattern on my 300c 2007 5.7 and is 5x4 1/4" wich it comes to be 5x 108 mm anybody have anything to tell me about this? Because is not 5x41/2" or 4x114mm. Any suggestions.
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I mean 5x114
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