[autofxj]

which bolt pattern

well, lets see, since the factory bolt pattern is a 5 X 115, I would go with that one. Is the 5 X 114.3 close, yes, but it is not the right bolt pattern. If you can get great looking wheels with the right bolt pattern then I would go with the correct bolt pattern.

 

[vyper883]

well, lets see, since the factory bolt pattern is a 5 X 115, I would go with that one. Is the 5 X 114.3 close, yes, but it is not the right bolt pattern. If you can get great looking wheels with the right bolt pattern then I would go with the correct bolt pattern.

If you were to draw a circle on a piece of paper with a radius of 57.50 mm, it's diameter would be 115mm. Now use the same center of that circle, and draw another circle with a radius of 57.15mm. That translates into a diameter of of 114.3mm. the difference is SO small, that the two circles almost overlap each other. we are talking maybe 2 to 3 thousands of an inch here. .70mm is less than the thickness of an ATM card, or a credit card. In fact you could not even fit a credit card between the two circles because the tiny gap is half the thickness of the credit card.

Assuming that the aftermarket wheel's center bore matches the vehicles hub perfectly, as that is the load bearing assembly, and not the lug nuts, or studs then I can't see an issue as the difference is so minute. It wouldn't even be worth machining the mounting holes of the rim, as it would be such a tiny amount of material to remove.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should use a 114.3 bolt pattern rim, I'm just trying to give an idea of how tiny the difference is. If I had a choice, I would definitely use the bolt pattern made for my vehicle.

 

[Tork Monster]

The difference between 115mm (factory) and 114.3mm is 0.028".
In machinery, that is a huge difference. On the wheels on my car that would be totally unacceptable. Even with hub-centric wheels, I would be concerned with vibration, and if bolt circles don't match the lug nuts won't seat evenly. This could cause galling between the nut and wheel or possible loosening during driving.
This may be a slightly paranoid viewpoint from someone who had wheels come off his car because of (now discontinued) universal-mount wheels.
More than once. Actually, they never came all the way off, I was able to stop quickly enough when they began to vibrate. The lug nuts would slowly work loose during driving.
I also had major problems with some Breyton wheels Discount Tires mounted on my BMW without installing the hub-centric spacer rings. Although the lug nuts were tapered and should have centered the wheels, vibration was terrible no matter how they installed them.
I will never again install wheels on a car that aren't specifically designed to fit THAT car.
I used to care a lot more about getting the best deal. Now I care most about getting the best equipment.
I wonder if anyone else out there watching have had similar problems with non-specific wheels?

 

[vyper883]

The difference between 115mm (factory) and 114.3mm is 0.028".
In machinery, that is a huge difference. On the wheels on my car that would be totally unacceptable. Even with hub-centric wheels, I would be concerned with vibration, and if bolt circles don't match the lug nuts won't seat evenly. This could cause galling between the nut and wheel or possible loosening during driving.
This may be a slightly paranoid viewpoint from someone who had wheels come off his car because of (now discontinued) universal-mount wheels.
More than once. Actually, they never came all the way off, I was able to stop quickly enough when they began to vibrate. The lug nuts would slowly work loose during driving.
I also had major problems with some Breyton wheels Discount Tires mounted on my BMW without installing the hub-centric spacer rings. Although the lug nuts were tapered and should have centered the wheels, vibration was terrible no matter how they installed them.
I will never again install wheels on a car that aren't specifically designed to fit THAT car.
I used to care a lot more about getting the best deal. Now I care most about getting the best equipment.
I wonder if anyone else out there watching have had similar problems with non-specific wheels?

You are absolutely right-Though It is dependant on how critical the tolerances are on a given part, or piece of machinery. It two lug nuts are exactly adjacent from each other, that translates to about 14 thousandths of an inch, that the lug nut will be off center towards the edge of the rim.

I can't speak for the wheels and your experience with them because I don't know the difference in their tolerances and dimentions. One reason had to be the lack of hub centric rings. The nuts may have initially centered the rim, but your lug nuts probably loosened more to the fact that the lug nuts and studs were also serving as a load bearing assembly for the wheel. That is the hub's job, and the hubs job alone. the lugs and studs are there to keep the wheel in place laterally, as their designed for tensile strength and not made to withstand the sheering forces from the weight of the vehicle and they will loosen with absolute certainty eventually if made to carry the vehicle's weight and forces.

You felt the vibration, because as soon as the nuts were loose enough, your wheel became de-centered, which would not be the case if the wheel's center bore was mated perfectly with the hub, even via a hubcentric ring or hubcentric spacer.
All being said, yes proper wheels should always be used for a particular application. Can you get away with 114.3 on LX vehicles? I don't know,some seem to have, but Personally I would avoid it, as I want to cruise at over 100mph with confidence, and not be thinking "what if"?
I'm in complete agreement with you and I may have been misunderstood in my previous post.- I would never recommend mounting an aftermarket wheel on a vehicle, unless it's fitment was within proper specs. Our safety rides on our wheels as they are the only contact point between the car and the road.

 

[Tork Monster]

I'm in complete agreement with you and I may have been misunderstood in my previous post.

No misunderstanding here; I was just ranting a bit from my own biased viewpoint :- )

The wheels that worked loose were on my '69 Chevy rod, and I don't think they used a hub center to locate the wheels on those.. I will have to look the next time I have one off.

 

[E55 KEV]

I also had major problems with some Breyton wheels Discount Tires mounted on my BMW without installing the hub-centric spacer rings. Although the lug nuts were tapered and should have centered the wheels, vibration was terrible no matter how they installed them.
I will never again install wheels on a car that aren't specifically designed to fit THAT car.

Aren't Breyton specific and only built for BMW? So wouldn't the hub be BMW specific and not require a centering hub? I do believe BMW had a center bore hub size change for some models and this may have been why not hub centric. Was this an older BMW with a hub of something like 57.1 versus their current size of 74.1 or something?

 

[Tork Monster]

Aren't Breyton specific and only built for BMW? So wouldn't the hub be BMW specific and not require a centering hub? I do believe BMW had a center bore hub size change for some models and this may have been why not hub centric. Was this an older BMW with a hub of something like 57.1 versus their size of 74.1 or something?

Exactly.
Breyton made the wheels with the larger bore so they could fit all models with the use of hub-centric rings. Discount Tire, however, didn't think these were required and didn't tell me they were even an option. It took about two weeks of rebalancing, etc. before they suggested to try those rings... all was well after that.

 

[vyper883]

Exactly.
Breyton made the wheels with the larger bore so they could fit all models with the use of hub-centric rings. Discount Tire, however, didn't think these were required and didn't tell me they were even an option. It took about two weeks of rebalancing, etc. before they suggested to try those rings... all was well after that.

You'd think that the professionals at a tire shop would do it right the first time.at:

 

[onedug]

Due to the limited availability of aftermarket wheel manufacturers that offer the correct bolt pattern, many '300 series' owners have resorted to running the incorrect bolt pattern and utilizing 'hub-centric' spacers to make them work.

Been there done that. Problem is, I was totally unaware that my 20" Panther Flood rims needed spacers. Two spacers in the front(each side) and one each side in the back. PAID DEARLY.... As Mr. DJ quoted, my freaking brakes on one side warped. Now who knows if it was because of the spacers but it is more than likely the reason.

 

[Topmotorsports]

I have the Tsw Montage with the 5x114.3 bolt pattern. No problems to report. Had them on for 800 miles and no shaking or any other notable problems. Have been over 100 mph as well.

 

[Blizzard]

hi,

I'm from Belgium and a proud owner of a 300C Touring as far as I know here in europe the AWD models have 5x115 and the RWD models have 5x114.3

greetz mando

 

[E55 KEV]

hi,

I'm from Belgium and a proud owner of a 300C Touring as far as I know here in europe the AWD models have 5x115 and the RWD models have 5x114.3

greetz mando

Sorry, but you got wrong information. Officially, all LX Chassis 300 models use 5x115 regardless of AWD or RWD. 5x114.3 is an 'optional' bolt pattern used by many for aftermarket rims.

 

[Blizzard]

that was told by a company that sells a sertain modell with the two options RWD and AWD, sorry if I'm wrong.

greetz mando

 

[GROUNDED]

i would say go for the 114.3's. .013 is such a small difference its 4 human hairs lined up in a row, i can guarntee that if you were to add up all the tolerances both geometrically and dimensionally relating to the bolt pattern and hub it would be well over that .013.

 

[36 chambers]

I have the Tsw Montage with the 5x114.3 bolt pattern. No problems to report. Had them on for 800 miles and no shaking or any other notable problems. Have been over 100 mph as well.

over 4k on these wheels not one drop of shaking and no probs???????and i have gone 118mph with these on!!

 

[GROUNDED]

i would also like to add that the .013" is uniformly distributed around the wheel and where it touches off on the stud.

 

[300on24s]

So did we come to a real verdict here? I'm in the process of ordering 24" wheels right now with 275/30/24 tires.

 

[Northern Rider]

My 4 decades of performance driving lead me to disagree with your claim. The center hub was never engineered to center the wheels. A slight error of even a millimeter there multiplies as it moves out from the hub. The lugs are designed to center the wheel and hold it firmly in position. The wheel must line up perfectly on the lugs. 114.3 mm wheels do not line up on 115 mm lugs.

Hub centering rings are not the right way to solve the problem. Once vibration starts, it almost always gets worse.

Many years ago, I felt the right front wheel and tire vibrate violently then roll down the road ahead of my car as I rapidly descended a hill on a busy 2 lane black top. Soon the right front of my vehicle dipped, throwing my car into the path of a large Semi 18 wheeler. By the grace of God, I hit the opposite shoulder and eased into a ditch - a fraction of a second before the truck barrelled by.

Why did the wheel come off? I had oversized the wheels with mismatched rims and one wheel vibrated loose. No part of the car takes more stress than where the wheels are bolted to the lugs.

My 40+ years of modding cars for show and for go says stick with the proper size, which for our cars is the 115 mm 5 lug pattern,

This is really important if you oversize the wheels, as the size and weight put enormous stress on the hubs, suspension and brakes.

Big wheels look nice but you are driving a 4200 lb. car and safety always has to be a prime concern.

 

[E55 KEV]

So did we come to a real verdict here? I'm in the process of ordering 24" wheels right now with 275/30/24 tires.

The consensus and fact/truth is - the correct bolt pattern is 5x115. No one disputes that. The verdict over the 5x114.3 pattern is deemed a secondary option for those that desire a rim that does not come in 5x115. Good Luck.

 

[reppr]

I just bought my new rims and Discount Tire wouldn't mount the 114.3's because they are not the correct bolt pattern for the car. They have many cars that come in with some shudder and broken lugs so they made it company policy not to install anything other than what the car bolt pattern calls for. I sent the original ones back and got 115's. Personally, for what I paid for the car, I would wait it out and get what comes on the car.